Who’s with me on this one? 
I’m with you. But why not 2007?
Take Care.
Haha. Yeah, but are you down with the mayanz, or are you just placing a bet? 2007 is as good a time as any I suppose, but I think the mayanz had everything calculated… I sure fucking hope they did anyway.
Here’s a good topic: What the fuck are we going to do if Civilization doesn’t collapse in 2012? I know my strategy might shift quite a bit.
i think the shit is going to start to slide down the hill some time around 2012-15. but i don’t think the greater populus is going to notice it for a long time after that. the civ is a big machine that almost nobody knows how to live without. a lot of survival instinct will be wasted trying to keep it moving instead of trying to go feral. and despite the fact that other civs have fallen, this one has been smoking for a long time–so much so that most folks will never believe that it can fall–even as it crumbles around them.
but i think we feral folks will start to find more and more chinks in the prison walls in the years after 2012. like the government will be too busy trying take care of itself to worry about me killing a buck out of season with a primitive weapon.
i don’t think life will be that different in 2012, but in 2035 we’ll look back and say with certainty that that was the turning point.
that’s my two cents. which i pilfered from anthropik and ran prieur.
If it hasnt entered into a state of obvious decay within 5 yrs, its time to go to plan B.
The Mayan Calendar does indeed rock my socks off.
But I do believe that 12/21/2012 does indeed mark a revolution of the sun around the center of the galaxy, does it not? I believe the shifting in the poles and other gravitational phenomenon will cause change, but cannot end anything.
Are you familiar with Daniel Pinchbeck? He’s getting a lot of traction for his book that he’s been peddaling on the same subject. I guess, with Terrence McKenna dead, someone needs to step up, but this Pinchbeck reminds me more of a weary Dr. Leary and less like the astute and careful McKenna.
Will the winged serpent Quetzacotl rise as many religions have predicted?
Time will tell, but mythology aside, wouldn’t it make sense to make, starting today, a five year plan that will get you where you want to be rather than wait for Jeebus to return and smite the civilizationists?
Urbanscout, I agree with you about the reason for looking at 2012 as a date when TSHTF. There is strong evidence that those who created the calendar did so from science far in advance of ours, and the calculations of their calendar has been proven accurate so far - I see no reason to doubt the final date.
In actual fact, their 365 and 1/4 day year calendar was preceded by a 360 day calendar. They changed it. The assumption from our scientists who are locked into their preconceived notion that the Mayans were ignorant and superstitious savages is that they just didn’t know any better, and finally figured out that the year really lasted five and a quarter more days.
But there is another, more likely assumption, given the fact that the Mayans did a pretty accurate job of forecasting events over a long, long period of time. Perhaps the earth’s rotation was only 360 days long. Then, there was a massive shift that moved us out from the sun a tiny fraction, and they had good enough science to re-calculate the year’s length and create a new calendar. AND, they had enough science to figure out when the next massive shift was going to occur - 2012 anyone?
Snowflower
PS - I wonder if the year will get shorter or longer this time?
Snowflower,
That makes sense considering that the ancient Egyptians also had a 360 day calendar. I wonder if other ancient peoples had 360 day calendars…
But there is another, more likely assumption, given the fact that the Mayans did a pretty accurate job of forecasting events over a long, long period of time. Perhaps the earth's rotation was only 360 days long. Then, there was a massive shift that moved us out from the sun a tiny fraction, and they had good enough science to re-calculate the year's length and create a new calendar. AND, they had enough science to figure out when the next massive shift was going to occur - 2012 anyone?Snowflower
PS - I wonder if the year will get shorter or longer this time?
That is fucking crazy-awesome! That really blows my mind.
I agree with you Tony, 5 year plan.
Yeah more rockin’ knowedge about the ultimate human starkeepers, the Mayans, thanks Snowflower!
Maybe this five-year plan is something we could work together on. We won’t have the same elements, considering our vastly different landbases, but let’s keep the dialogue going on how to inspire others.
Tony
So I’m supposed to write this thank you letter for the scholarship I recieved for the fall semester at college–the Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil Association Scholarship–and include information on my interests, plans for the future, etc. Why they would give such a scholarship to an environmental studies student in the first place I don’t know.
Dear Mr Fasenmeyer,
Thank you for your scholarship. It has allowed me to relieve much of my student loan debt so that I may return to the earth mother to live a truly primitive lifestyle somewhat sooner than expected. Although I too have pride in the fine grade of petroleum produced in northwestern Pennsylvania, being that I love this dear land and everything about it, I despise your earth-raping industry and my excitement builds each day as I look forward to it’s inevitable collapse. My hobbies include collecting skulls, eating roadkill, and discussing how best to bring down civilization.
Sincerely, Penny Scout
Okay so I didn’t write that. I couldn’t write that. The school proofreads your letter before they give it to the donor. But it sure would be funny.
Personally, I don’t trust the Mayans.
I think I’m in love with you, Penny. That letter rocked! I wish you could send it like that.
…I’m still laughing.
Thanks Rix!
I made that one up on the fly.
Great website. I’m new here, but definitely want in on discussing all this great REWILDING stuff.
I am very curious what all you put into your 5 year plan?
I am trying to build one up myself… ???
I’m with you, US.
Anyway, without its people a civilization will collapse. Our civilization currently needs hallway cleaners, dusters, engineers, garbage man and women to take away the garbage, loose screw tighteners, dish washers (machine or human), food processors (machine or human), building designers, insurance paid doctors, full-time agricultural farmers, farmable lands, and so on to keep it alive. Without all those and much much more any given civilization will collapse. If the people and machines that do those jobs walk away step-by-step the system will collapse step-by-step. Civilization has already fallen in many parts of the world. Civilization cultural catastrophe has happened it just hasn’t got to you and me yet on a large out-in-the-open scale, but look over the mountains, you’ll see the places where it has happened, places like reservations and third world countries. If we create and act out a new way other than civilization or use the walkaway method that some past civilization peoples have done for when their ideal civilization creation failed them, then the civilizations foundation and basic frame work of our will eventually give away because we won’t be around to maintain and support the fixtures that keep it going and as long as there are the limited resources that make it stay afloat as well. I’m saying that the basic foundational locks that hold everything in place for our civilization will giveaway and deteriorate if we gradually end our support by switching our things we do to different things we do. Also, on the bright side, sometimes if one screw loosens hold a whole section of civilization may crumble, but even if it doesn’t crumble when we want it to I don’t see how that would get under our skin negatively since we know it will eventually, and will be doing our business walking away anyway only to look back to tell our children not to make the same mistakes we created. What goes up must come down, especially if nothing supports what up.
I don’t know if you can count reservations as an example of collapse. It’s generally the people who were trying to avoid civilization at all costs who live there. We basically said, “Fine, you don’t want to live like us? Then we’ll leave you to a shitty existence on the most marginal lands available, while we take everything else.”
I definately think that a major factor contributing to collapse will basically amount to peoples’ non-participation…simply stopping what we are doing…maybe just walking away…“JUST SAY NO”… this implies an exodus from the city but, maybe not…maybe there will be some of us who decide to stay…maybe there is important work to be done in the city…
Has anyone ever read or heard of a novel “Into the Forest” by Jean Hegland? The setting is in the early years of the collapse of the US economic and political system, it is well written, and quite beatiful too. To me rewilding appears as a constant theme as well. I highly recommend it!
The Mayans were even craftier than people may ever understand…
Basically they figured out that in 2012 there is going to be a kick ass astrological event. They called that date x, and then back dated from there to their present time to figure out where they were in relation to it… That date is Dec. 21 2012… pretty sweet. 13.0.0.0.0 for them. Not an end but a beginning…sounds pretty good.
Check it out here.
http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html
And as far as dates go…
It is either July of 2011, or September of 2007.
call me crazy but I got the number 7-11 stuck in my head…I know I know…
But it has been with me for awhile now.
I’m hoping for July of 2011, because I don’t think I will be ready by Sept. 2007…