Is there a place for spirit?

Visions of the Rewilding Renaissance Rewilding Mind & Heart
#1

I’m wondering as I read here, is there a place for spirit in all the academic analyzing and scholarly approach to this “rewilding”?
It’s hard for us to let go of that way of viewing things. That’s the way we’ve been taught all our lives. It’s the way we nourish in ourselves. We even approach rebellion from that angle.
Even though spirit’s all around us, we miss it. Even when we long for spirit in our lives and spend years pursuing it, we rationalize it away with our analytical minds. Instead of absorbing it unconditionally, we have to think about it and figure out what does it all mean, until it means so much it doesn’t mean anything any more.

Quite few years back I went to an elder and asked for help in a “vision quest”. This was quite a process and I obediently followed all of the instructions I was given. The time came for me to do the fasting part of the ceremony. I was taken to a very remote place and shown my “spot”. This is where I would stay alone for the next four days with no food or water. This was during new moon in October so the nights were long and dark.

On the last day my elder came to get me. Before we went back he asked me if anything unusual had happened that I would like to talk about before we walked back to his truck to go home. I said not really anything unusual. He said OK.
As I was picking up my stuff, little by little I mentioned a couple of things that were a little wierd. By the time I was ready to head back I had thought of a few more things. Just as we were starting to go he stopped and said, “So I just want to know, does that kind of stuff happen to you all the time?”

#2

In my experience, when I try to open up my spirit to life in the civilized world, it’s painful.

For me, work on rewilding the spirit can only be done when I am physically removed from mainstream society and immersed in the natural world. I’ve found it can’t be done on a web forum. But the forum is useful in many other ways, including a chance to collectively lay down some intellectual ground for rewilding.

#3

I have noticed that at certain times of my life, ‘it happens all the time’, and at other times, I have a period where I don’t notice ‘it happening’.

[i go back and forth about what to call ‘it’ - often I use the word ‘spirit’ too, but then I see new agers abuse it as something odd ‘other’ thing, and it makes me gun-shy of the term.]

I used to feel bad about these periods of ‘it not happening’, but then I kinda chilled out. I figured out that when I don’t ‘notice it happening’, I have chosen not to notice. So I just choose to notice again.

So spirit comes down to a willingness to notice that the world wouldn’t exist without it. The clanking yet sometimes elegant spirit of intellect can distract and drown out ‘noticing’, I think, and just as often create a kind of intellectual house that spirit can flow through safely.

I think some worship intellect for its own sake - I use it to expand my ability to notice and experience the world. When it doesn’t do this, I smash or cast-off or reforge the tool.

#4

Yeah I don’t know what terminology works for describing things like this, words just don’t quite cut it. But that is a tangent that our intellects would love to take us down.

I see people surrounded by beauty and wonder with creation working all around them and they rationalize it all away with verifiable explanations or they read so much symbolism and metaphor into it that it becomes a comedy of interpretation.

It’s good when we can see when it’s time to check our intellect at the door. Just soak up what creation is offering us and let it become part of us.

#5

I want you to know that I do not want to take you on any tangent. :slight_smile: I thought I might tell a little bit of my own experiences of this, but I quite likely it won’t add well to the conversation you want to have. I like exchanging with you though, so if you’d ever like to hear why struggling with words (that don’t quite cut it) has really nourished me and opened up some stuff up for me, let’s start a thread about it sometime.

Having said that, a discussion on ‘spiritual terminology’ sounds like the most boring thing ever, even to me, so don’t feel obligated or rushed to start such a mythical thread. :slight_smile:

I see people surrounded by beauty and wonder with creation working all around them and they rationalize it all away with verifiable explanations

Yes, the ‘did it really happen’ and the ‘i only see what i already believe’ bugbears. My dire enemies, as a storyteller and a tracker of things that matter. Avast, ye soul killing swine! Gird your loins, for even the moment could not exist if not powered by the beauty of unquenchable grief of what we can never prove or know by thinking. One of my tears beats a thousand facts.

Do you think that made them quake in their boots? I hope so. :slight_smile:

or they read so much symbolism and metaphor into it that it becomes a comedy of interpretation.

Symbolism and metaphor as ‘ends to themselves’ have sucked much life, and may define what unnerves me about the New Age thing.

It's good when we can see when it's time to check our intellect at the door. Just soak up what creation is offering us and let it become part of us.

For me, I experience this most while tracking with other people, and while we share what we ‘feel’ the tracks telling us, not with words, but with our bodies and our beating hearts.

Thanks for starting this thread!

#6

I can tell that you “get” what I’m trying to say.
To use a metaphor ha ha, Have you ever heard the saying about how if all you have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail?
I feel like mainstream western culture offers us the intellect as our hammer. While it is a very useful tool, it just does not serve us very well when it’s used for everything.

Tangent warning I wasn’t sure about the word creation either. That one can bring a lot of baggage with it.

#7

Also heyvictor, you might agree with me that when you interact w/ people over a web forum, the way that they write gives you a very small slice of who they are. You can only do so much over the internet.

Take me for example - when I’m writing, I’m using every available grammatical tool to articulate myself as clearly as possible because I know that writing is NOT direct interaction and I want to make sure I’m understood even if you can’t hear my voice or see my face. (The smileys help ;)) I approach text-based interaction that way, but of course I’m not going to approach all of life that way. So if I come off as a primarily intellectual person over the internet (and I’m sure that I do), remember that at least in this case, “the medium is the message”. :slight_smile:

I’ve noticed that there are very few “mediums” or “settings” that I find myself in (in everyday life) where I can throw my whole self in unreservedly. That’s because almost all my experiences (right now) are within civilization, and civilization (because it is hierarchical, among other things) punishes complete self-knowledge. The punishment is built in and needs no “maintenance”.

Example: Time and time again, I’ve noticed that when I’m in public, people – complete strangers – respond to me differently when I try to “open up” to a moment. It’s truly traumatizing and I’ve stopped doing it UNLESS I am in nature with people that I know well and trust. When I am “closed off” (which is a necessary defense mechanism in civ), people don’t interact with me unless they have some pressing need (“Do you have the time?” “Can you spare a dime?”).

BUT when I’m walking down the sidewalk or waiting for the bus or whatever in public and I feel “now would be a good time to open myself up and feel alive and responsive and connected to what’s around me” (because I want to be able to do that, it should make me happy, right?) then something about my body language changes and then HORRIBLY SICK people try to make me feel unsafe (“hey baby” and crap like that, OR they try to dump all of their issues onto me). They don’t do it for any reason except that it gives them a feeling of control and security in a world where they have neither.

I am not making this up - there is a very very distinct correlation between my level of “openness” and the way complete strangers treat me. If I change my closed-off attitude and extend my “feelers,” I am met with overwhelming pain and adversity. I don’t even have to fucking LOOK at someone for them to sense that because I’m “receiving” the world, they can try to treat me as a “receptacle” for their garbage.

So the choice for me, whenever I’m outside of my own home, is either loneliness or feelings of being UNsafe to simply feel alive.

And it’s why I won’t choose to rewild my spirit anymore unless I’m physically removed from civ. I’ve gained bodily knowledge that civilization “wants” to destroy all happiness, and people who are trapped by it are very effective vessels for that “want”.

(PS - I will also add that, by the measure I’ve described above, people in Seattle are more “civilized” than people in Minnesota - unfortunately (and, for me, surprisingly). On the other hand, the gems in Seattle are truly precious.)

#8

oh, i think there’s a place, just seems a lot more difficult to get to

for example, ever since i started working in Corporate America, i’ve noticed that it takes a lot more effort to change my perceptions and focus. there’s just too much demand for patterns of thinking that run counter to those moments you experienced during your “vision quest”. i suspect that other posters are correct in pointing out similar issues w/ posting on the 'net.

still, tho’, i can say that i spent years (and then some) struggling with “spirit” (for lack of a better word) on an intellectual basis. it’s kind of weird, you can get so close, but never really pin it down that way. i eventually decided to say to hell with it, and stopped relying solely on my intellect to understand (and experience) it.

also, (and i realize, i’m borderline rambling here) i think another reason we often don’t get into it here is that a lot of these experiences are deeply personal. i can say right now that there are very real limits to what i’ll disclose in a public forum re: this question.

#9

“i can say right now that there are very real limits to what i’ll disclose in a public forum re: this question.”

You and me both.

#10

SilverArrow, I agree about web forum communication. I also agree about the medium being the message. I could go on a real tangent about that one actually but I’ll hold back on that.

#11

Spirituality isn’t a goal, it’s something already in place that you have the ability to choose to recognize or not.

We are connected to much more than what is in our perceptual field, if this helps any, what that should mean to you is that recognized or not, EVERYTHING is interconnected, as demonstrated by the spooky action at a distance principle of quantum physics.

We are EQUALLY connected to the strife and struggle no matter where we are at, just as we are EQUALLY connected to the beauty of the world, no matter where we are at.

Psychology, self-determination, is what creates false barriers from the painful and the joyful.

Through this internet, I am able to express a DEEPER connection to you, the reader, than I am able to express with you on a quantum level. But we are connected, nevertheless, and these things should not be forgotten.

Our love for each other may be injured, but should not be withheld.

If you continue to maintain the levy of your emotional outpouring from washing over your city of disconnection, mother nature will not be allowed to rewild your mind.

I’m sorry if this seems too strong, but it is I, he who plays with fire, and I only wish to be helpful.

#12

Ah, entanglement and quantum theory. How I wish I understood ye more. Couldn’t agree more, by the way.

#13

[quote=“heyvictor, post:9, topic:676”]“i can say right now that there are very real limits to what i’ll disclose in a public forum re: this question.”

You and me both.[/quote]

Now is the time, though. When you find in your thoughts that you are among people that you appreciate, and who you suspect appreciate you…all everyone involved wants is you. The very deep and real you. I don’t have this experience just yet, I’m a beginner so to speak. But an example might look like this:

I took, I bailed on, I went, I got all human and stuff, I got off track, I fucked, I got fucked, I wish, My spouse wishes, My kids wish, My head sucks, I love, I want, I perceive, Me, and on and on.

I know you know it, but I thought I would simply remind. People want you. I am reminding myself more than anyone. I think an important reminder though.

Disclosure_now.com–could be a beautiful thing, (doesn’t exist). But our attention goes to the biggest news–you make the news, and we learn from you.

Back to the regularly scheduled…

#14

there is only place for spirit! i find it really too easy for me to gloss over my spirit and then become disenchanted with most of my life. i have too work hard at consistently showing gratitude. but i think spirit work should be hard, especially with all the conditioning that we animals have gone through. we have been lead to believe that our souls are to be fostered and maintained in monasteries, temples and churches. and then only on sundays or saturdays or holidays when banks close.
its unconditioning this stuff that makes my spiritual work hard. i practice yoga cause the funny bendy stuff makes me giggle but the idea of vegetarianism further separates me from the deer and elk rather than connect me to them.
i dunno, i went on a bit of a rant. anyways, i think spirit is all that fits. when it is a crushed and defeated spirit, the world collapses around it and further suffocates an already drowning being. when the spirit is glowing and grinning nature expands around it giving the proper space for growth.
i am going to go stand on one leg and fall over when the sparrows come by again

#15

you make a good point, but part of the limits I’m talking about aren’t just me. even tho’, i have little reason to think some parties would care anymore, there’s simply no way i’m bringing into a public forum. and even for those that are reasonably just me:

I don't have this experience just yet, I'm a beginner so to speak. But an example might look like this:

I took, I bailed on, I went, I got all human and stuff, I got off track, I fucked, I got fucked, I wish, My spouse wishes, My kids wish, My head sucks, I love, I want, I perceive, Me, and on and on.

those aren’t quite the experiences i’m talking about.

don’t get me wrong, i know this comment prolly comes off as snarky, but it isn’t meant to be. what you said beared saying, and i’m glad you said it.

#16

I understand. I could stand to think a little more before saying things like that anyway. I can be a bit indelicate. And it isn’t warranted.

#17

no, please understand, i didn’t take offense, i just wanted to clarify.

#18

[quote=“BlueHeron, post:7, topic:676”]I’ve stopped doing it [opening my spirit to the world] UNLESS I am in nature with people that I know well and trust.[/quote]

And it’s why I won’t choose to rewild my spirit anymore unless I’m physically removed from civ.

I’m happy to say that I had some time to move in spiritual ways (sounds corny, but I have no better words!) when I was camping on the Olympic Peninsula recently. When I try to create those same experiences in a city, I just feel stunted by the urban social environment. Fortunately I’m moving in a month! :slight_smile:

#19

Another thing to add -

For me, a fundamental part of my rewilding process (reconnecting with my true wild nature and the wild world around me) is expanding my sense of “self” to include the land that I live on and all the other creatures that inhabit it with me. In Endgame DJ quoted a native person who said that it was “sharing the same skin” (or something to that effect ;)).

To me, spirit is a fundamental part of this. I know that I have “spirit” (or whatever one wants to call it) as part of my fundamental nature, and recognizing other creatures/the world as part of myself (or me as part of it - the same being) immediately makes me aware of the spirit inherent in the world and all living things.

#20

[quote=“BlueHeron, post:18, topic:676”][quote author=BlueHeron link=topic=724.msg8052#msg8052 date=1202112426]
I’ve stopped doing it [opening my spirit to the world] UNLESS I am in nature with people that I know well and trust.
[/quote][quote]
And it’s why I won’t choose to rewild my spirit anymore unless I’m physically removed from civ.
[/quote]

I’m happy to say that I had some time to move in spiritual ways (sounds corny, but I have no better words!) when I was camping on the Olympic Peninsula recently. When I try to create those same experiences in a city, I just feel stunted by the urban social environment. Fortunately I’m moving in a month! :)[/quote]

I believe that when you are connected to spirit in a balanced, strong way, the location and surrounding is irrelevant. One of the goals I set for myself is being able to be in touch with spirit no matter where I am. I think a common misconception that people have about spirit is that there has to be a specific place, or book, or person, or ritual that connects them. People are constantly looking outside of themselves for spirit, when in my opinion, it’s all right here inside of us and with concentration and focus, we can access that anywhere and any time and fill our lives with spirit. But…I can certainly understand how difficult it is to feel in tune with spirit in a place so lacking of it. And it definitely helps to be somewhere you feel supported, safe and open.