Ai think we oughta just use it to mean a female dog, adopting ‘butch’ as the word for a male dog (makes sence right :P).
I never once had any desire to use the word here…
until someone asked me to refrain.
j/k.
Do we need to make a list of no-nos? I find the word retard in reference to ostensible stupidity more distinctly offensive to a certain grouping of people with a quality beyond their control, as well as any peculiarity thereof (smacktard, fucktard, etc), and I think everyone would agree that cocksucker is indubitably inappropriate.
That’s their prerogative :-\ I’ve been on the receiving end of massive amounts of discrimination. I know how to roll with the verbal punches.
I suppose I’m trying to trivialize the debacle and help redirect the discontent.
Mass extinction, oh no! Someone said something petty and someone else gave it the strength of offensiveness, so? Water off a ducks back. Dislike me? Quack yawn quack.
ya’ll bitches need to chill out.
I for one, would like to make a motion for people to not to refer to their dogs as ‘little people’
I consider myself a feminist, but I’m going to admit right now that I use the words “bitch” and “retard” waaaaay too often. I do feel a pang of guilt at using the word “retard,” even though it comes disturbingly naturally to me (it’s part of my generation’s slang, unfortunately), and I’m trying to stop.
“Bitch” is harder to stop using because although theoretically I know it’s an anti-woman slur, I’ve never heard it used in that way. Or at least I never interpreted it that way when I’ve heard it. I’m more familiar with the comical, Dave Chappelle usage of “bitch” - as a funny word to end a sentence with for no apparent reason. (“I’m rich, bitch!”) As Ben Folds has known for years (exhibit A, exhibit B), “bitch” is an inherently funny word that only gets funnier with repetition. I’m all for reclaiming the word “bitch” and overusing it until all meaning - sexist or otherwise - has been completely obliterated. But I’m open to having my mind changed on the subject and in any case, if it bothers you I won’t use it on this board anymore. If I did use it on this board before, which I can’t remember if I did. I mean, apart from this post where I used it like 20 times.
Er… sorry… :-\
Words are only as meaningful as people believe they are.
i dunno, generally speaking, i subscribe to the Lenny Bruce school of thought on the subject of “bad” words.
on the other, i can’t help but be struck by the absurdity of Randall “taking back” the phrase “porch monkey” in Clerks 2…
[quote=“jhereg, post:12, topic:599”]i dunno, generally speaking, i subscribe to the Lenny Bruce school of thought on the subject of “bad” words.
on the other, i can’t help but be struck by the absurdity of Randall “taking back” the phrase “porch monkey” in Clerks 2…[/quote]
I hadn’t even heard the phrase “porch monkey” until Clerks 2. I guess if I’d heard it without context, I would have thought of it in the same way as “code monkey.” What made that gag in Clerks 2 funny was that Randall wasn’t black. A white person can’t “take back” an anti-black slur. But women can - and some have - taken back the word “bitch.” I like how some gay men use the word in an admiring and sometimes even affectionate way. We need more of that.
I need to? Really? Tell me how… I was so fed up I wasn’t aware of the possibility.
Yeah, that term is property of piskies!
I used to think that guy wasn’t funny, but that is funny. I suppose I would have said something to the effect of “Many of you struggle to survive while I live a life of excess! GLOAT mo’facker GLOAT!” and nobody would have laughed.
Reading over the post which sparked this thread I saw the word ‘emo’. I have my own bone to pick with the word emo, which being a recent label has not deviated much from it’s origin. It seems to me like some people get harsh on others for expressing their feelings. I grew up in this culture, I often felt like shit, I occasionally made that apparent - and I depised the ones who mocked me for it.
Well… looks like my soapbox is rests on the saddle of my high horse which stands on a rockingchair balanced on a highwire… not that I feel like apologizing…
Reading over the post which sparked this thread I saw the word 'emo'. I have my own bone to pick with the word emo, which being a recent label has not deviated much from it's origin. It seems to me like some people get harsh on others for expressing their feelings. I grew up in this culture, I often felt like shit, I occasionally made that apparent - and I depised the ones who mocked me for it.I think that was more self-deprecation than anything... I don't think the original poster really thinks expressing emotion is a bad thing (especially since one of the things he talked about was how much less emotion he was able to express recently), but was simply making fun of himself for writing such a long post. Although certainly I can't speak for him, that's how I interpreted it, anyway...
Concerning offensive terms, i find a lot of wisdom in examining the simplistic and twisted perspectives of Michael Scott on The Office.
In the episode “Gay Witch Hunt”, Michael Scott (the boss) calls his employee Oscar “faggy,” not knowing about Oscar’s homosexuality.
It may seem a little off-topic, but I present it in terms of thinking about offensive words and how we generally make a mess of using them.
[hr]
Michael Scott: I need to know who else is gay. I don’t want to offend anyone else.
Dwight Schrute: You could assume everyone is, and not say anything offensive.
Michael Scott: Yeah. I’m sure everyone would appreciate me treating them like they were gay.
Michael Scott: I call everybody faggy. Why would anyone find that offensive?
Toby (the HR guy): I think Oscar would like it if you just used “lame” or something.
Michael Scott: But that’s what faggy means!
Michael Scott: You don’t call retarded people retards. It’s bad taste. You call your friends retards when they are acting retarded. And I consider Oscar a friend.
Michael Scott: Did you know that gay used to mean happy? When I was growing up it meant “lame”. And now it means a man who makes love to other men. We’re all homos. Homo sapiens.
Michael Scott: I am just coming out myself. I am coming out hetero.
Michael Scott: I’m glad that today spurred social change. That’s part of my job as regional manager, but you know what even if it didn’t, at least we put this matter to bed. That’s what she said…or he said.
"Bitch" is, yes, a word for a female dog, but a breeding female dog. These nonhuman animals are obviously not really liking having sex when they don't want to, so, often times, they have to be "coerced", that is, impregnated against their will, raped, and, they are "difficult" (I would be too I would hope), so they get called "bitch" along with any "difficult" woman or "weak"/complaining man.not going to lie, in this context I'd take being called a bitch as a compliment. you might just want to change one of the words around to strong willed >>
(seriously)
I think it’s more important to have conversations and let people know how you feel, because then you are discussing contexts, not arrangements of letters.
I often remind people of the root of words like ‘gypped’, or that Dr. King more often than not referred to his people as Negroes.
conversations seem more valuable than definitions when dealing with with political and social ‘correctness’.
Here’s something that I don’t understand about those who aren’t willing to check their language.
When you use words that you know could offend someone, you alienate people. No amount of “reasoning” is going to un-alienate them, especially when they have already stated that they find those words offensive. Their feelings are their own and it’s not up to you to say how they should feel. Is it really that important to be able to do things “your way” - so much so that you’d prioritize it over your relationships with other people?
What’s more difficult - checking your language, or undergoing the consequences of not checking it (i.e., losing group esteem)? What’s more in the spirit of rewilding - criticizing someone for expressing that they have taken offense (so that you can justify continuing to doing things your own way), OR acknowledging the relationship between the choices you make and the feelings of other people?
…And in this case, thereandback, who started this thread, did just that - (s)he (can’t remember the gender) let us know very clearly how (s)he felt when people use the word “bitch.” Given the history of the word (and anyone who has read this thread now knows its history), I think that refusing to refrain from using it shows a lack of serious commitment to gender equality.
Yes, words are arrangements of letters … arrangements which carry meaning. I guess you could choose to arrange letters in the shape of a wall separating you from other people or you could choose to arrange them in a more constructive way.
Am I to address your concerns personally, or allow what is said to be said? I wasn’t addressed personally, but I was quoted. Your words addressed my words, but they didn’t address me.
People often comment on the things they are most preoccupied with.
in my (seriously) post, I didn’t use the “B” word at all, to show I have a respectful side, as well as a raging coyote within me.
I would like to request you to ‘check’ the following suggestions and assumptions:
“aren’t willing to check ‘their’ language”
“you alienate people”
“you’d prioritize it(‘your way’) over relationships”
“lack of serious commitment to gender equality”
and of course
the ‘B’ word.
Respectfully,
Me
[quote=“SilverArrow, post:19, topic:599”]Here’s something that I don’t understand about those who aren’t willing to check their language.
When you use words that you know could offend someone, you alienate people. No amount of “reasoning” is going to un-alienate them, especially when they have already stated that they find those words offensive. Their feelings are their own and it’s not up to you to say how they should feel. Is it really that important to be able to do things “your way” - so much so that you’d prioritize it over your relationships with other people?
What’s more difficult - checking your language, or undergoing the consequences of not checking it (i.e., losing group esteem)? What’s more in the spirit of rewilding - criticizing someone for expressing that they have taken offense (so that you can justify continuing to doing things your own way), OR acknowledging the relationship between the choices you make and the feelings of other people?
…And in this case, thereandback, who started this thread, did just that - (s)he (can’t remember the gender) let us know very clearly how (s)he felt when people use the word “bitch.” Given the history of the word (and anyone who has read this thread now knows its history), I think that refusing to refrain from using it shows a lack of serious commitment to gender equality.
Yes, words are arrangements of letters … arrangements which carry meaning. I guess you could choose to arrange letters in the shape of a wall separating you from other people or you could choose to arrange them in a more constructive way.[/quote]
SilverArrow,
Hm…may I ask you who…'cause this sure sounds like unsolicited advice aimed at the whole community and assuming a lot. Do you see what I mean?
I don’t know, to me the way you (Silver Arrow and not to single you out, this goes out to all you you-ers, ha ha, or should I say ‘us’ you-ers; unspecified ‘you’ users) use ‘you’ a lot in this last post makes me wunder if you have or haven’t spent some time acknowledging any of the notices our moderators posted on moving around using unsolicited advice and/or abandoning this kind of advice altogether for at least on this forum, and how the moderators also ask if someone perfers spreading unsolicited advice on forums we ask please at least leave this forum free of such advice?
most likely she didn’t notice it but it is a good note to mention, maybe silverArrow you could tell us about your experience that led you to that. 
Also I wonder how do you know what words offend someone, if you’re not intentionally trying to offend?
semi-idle curiousity…
who finds this book title offensive?
if I took offense at every instance in our pop culture where someone treats us in a lame way, with action, words, or ideas, I’d lose my mind!
This thread has started to grind on my nerves.
Let me tell a little bit of my story here, as it pertains to rewild.info.
I do moderator work here with this attitude: whatever environment I help create, will draw like to like.
If I create an environment of rules, as personal power-trips where my word comes down as law, then I’ll start attracting folks who want that.
I don’t like those people (sorry to ‘those people’, but I don’t. your kind leaves me with the blahs). I like those-who-rewild - folks who question, stand up for their inner nature (in a tao-of-pooh kind of way), and who innovate without regard to conventional cultural concepts of risk. In other words, you guys.
I know, of course, this implies a possibly bumpy ride here - heck, why not scream and poop and rub dirt in each other’s hair, doesn’t that ‘innovate without regard to conventional yadda yadda’?
So how to temper it? For me, it feels really simple. We all know what makes sense to each one of us, i.e. to ME. To all us ME’s here.
Let’s assume, as questioning beings with varying and unique inner natures (and truths), that different things make sense to each one of us. Some people will have triggers with certain words, with certain topics. Some people will feel constrained by certain guidelines, or certain notions of ‘how to discuss’ things.
Rewilding means honoring all of these together, doesn’t it? How do we do that?
Understanding, for me as a moderator, that if I don’t honor all these things together, someone will start their own rewild.info. A better one. They’ll probably even call it ‘rewilding.info’ too. Or maybe ‘rewildingrox.org’, or ‘borntorewild.net’, or something really cool like that.
I don’t have any power here except to make honey that will attract the bees I care about. I have to keep this place sweet.
This thread tastes a little sour in my mouth.
For me, my personal algorithm for useful conversation here goes ‘tell your story, ask a question, or post somewhere else appropriate to what you want to say different’. I encourage this because I think it will tend to create what I want here. However, I could use this as a bludgeon, just like the Founding Fathers used the Iroquois Great Law of Peace to create the beast known as the US Constitution, to beat people over their head with.
I only have to leave out the Peace part.
In our context, I like to call this ‘generous interpretation’. In what way would what the other person has to say, make sense? What most positive and genuine meaning can one reasonably read into another’s email? And, do I have an investment in other people adjudicating me as ‘Right’, as opposed to ‘Wrong’?
Perhaps the guideline I encourage needs an extra bit? ‘Tell a story, ask a question, and read posts assuming the most positive interpretation.’
For me, what George Carlin or Lenny Bruce, or any other heroes of mine would think about the general tight-assed reaction to words like ‘bitch’, ‘fuck’, etc., seems irrelevant to the person I have right in front of me, looking for community, and having a story to tell. I want to know: what can I do to welcome them, to create a safe enough space to hear their story, a story that will surely show me something unlooked for and unique about rewilding? Yeah, fuck the system…but not this person sitting right here, in front of me. Systems suck. People have hearts that beat.
You’ll notice, surely, that I don’t type platitudes and roll over for folks for just anything. But if I can get to a place of sincerity, I’ll do what it takes to make that happen. And if that means not saying my favorite swear words, who cares?
My friend Derrick won’t go near alcohol. It freaks him out. Well shit, get over it, Derrick, right? I mean, native peoples brewed herbal wine and beers all round the world. Alcohol has a long and distinguished history. Hill peoples in the US made it to keep their close-to-the-land culture intact. Alcohol rox!
Unless of course, I ask Derrick why he can’t handle the smell of alcohol. And I hear his childhood stories of abuse at the hand of a drunken father. Suddenly my lucid and correct critique of those who have a problem with alcohol seems like a bunch of bullshit. Or rather, I can ‘BE’ right, or I can have a friend. I can show off my Ph.D. in the history of alcohol (or the use of the word ‘bitch’, or any other thing), or I can have community (yes, filled with people who have irrational hang-ups, moodiness, cry at inappropriate times, etc. i.e., real people.). We don’t know before hand what will touch someone off - we can only respond afterwards with empathy and friendship (if we value these things).
NOBODY HERE CAN TELL YOU HOW TO LIVE YOUR LIFE, OR DO YOUR OWN REWILDING.
But when we come together, with all our foibles and excellences, we need help to share our we do our own rewilding. So guidelines pop up, and I make sure to stress them often: tell your story, ask a question (or make a request), and interpret generously with lots of empathy.
And don’t forget to ask for help if you need it, from anybody!