Alcoholism


#1

I remember there being a thread about this but then again im not sure and my web-fu is weak at the moment.

Im an alcoholic. (how would i write that in e-primitive?) Im not the steadily and heavily type. Im the give me a drink and i’ll stop when i die type. The demon of the bottle shows me at my most darkest. I become an angry violent perversion of myself. A mirror of the violence that surrounds us. Its not a physical violence im talking about but something more hidden, something that hurts me and you. something that wants to die but still lives. My demons live down the bottle and they’re pissed!

My father is an alcoholic. He’s been sober for a some while now and i love him for that. Our relation with alcohol cuts deep. When he and I talk about alcohol we speak the same story. Guilt. Shame. Anger lots of Anger. Forgetfullness. Regrets. Wounds. Neglect. Selfishness.

My community loves the alcohol. Our social patterns revolve around using alcohol. The parties that once revolutionized our boring weekdays have now become part of the establishment and we ritualized our taking of alcohol. The stuff that hurts me and makes me hurt in return. a real party that is.

So i want to stop drinking. Im wondering if people here could share some wisdom on that. How to make things easier ? How should i heal those wounds so bloodily exposed when drunk? How to talk with my demons? What practical advice to stop drinking?

and ofcourse i just needed to get that out there for me and you to read. I want to be there for my girlfriend. someone to rely on.


#2

Oh and i found the other thread too… http://www.rewild.info/conversations/index.php?topic=546.0

I dont really want to revive that discussion id like some more advice on where to go from here. How to heal from this thing.


#3

I wish I could help. Urban Scout definitely knows all about this…


#4

I’m sorry, I can’t offer much help either. A few years ago I had a relationship with someone who had an alcohol addiction (he hid it well; I found out by degrees). After I put two and two together, I realized pretty quickly I didn’t know how to help him. I didn’t know how to bring it up directly either, but I did hint to him that I thought he had a problem. (When I was with him, we had drinks w/ dinner every night and one night I told him I wasn’t going to drink anything; when he asked why, I said, “I just want to… (pregnant pause intended) … go without drinking for a while and see how it feels, to make sure that I can … (another pregnant pause) stay sober and feel good about it.” Well, he got the hint and decided to “follow my lead” the next day, but after a short while he started drinking again. (I guess he told himself that I had “forgotten” or that I wouldn’t notice.) I became very unhappy, and we broke up shortly after that. I felt a lot of pain about it for a long time.

Have you tried an experienced addiction counselor or support group? Maybe someone who has a knowledge of eco-psychology?


#5

timeLESS,
If you are surrounded by people who drink, and it is an integral part of social interaction in your circle of friends and relations. You will have to separate yourself from that scene.

You can’t keep a foot in both worlds while you get sober.

An addictions counselor will be able to help you. AA has helped a lot of people. Talk to your Dad about it more, how did he get sober? But remember, you need help. Don’t think you can do this on your own, through your own will alone. Find support.

Billy


#6

Hey thanks all for advice!

I think i’ll elaborate a little. Im 24, i started drinking seriously when i was 16. Just weekends but quite heavy. I moved into a large squatted place when i turned 17. Everyday was partyday and i had a period i which i drank nonstop with friends. Then i met my exgirlfriend. I moved to Finnish-Lapland with her. Handled the booze well. Then there were periods were i spent half a year here alone. This is were the booze hit me. Made me feel bad instead of fun. It took me awhile to realize though. We broke up to different reasons then drinking entirely and i met with my current partner.

The drinking didnt turn fun though. I realized this and talked it over with especially my girlfriend. I didnt just realize i was getting bad-drunks, i realized i didnt even look forward to drinking or parties all together anymore. I found this uhmmm weird. Everyone was partying and werent they enjoying themselves? Maybe this time i’ll just fit in?

Well i stopped drinking then because i realized that i didnt get from life what i wanted from it and i realized alcohol only served to keep me away from what i wanted. Not drinking went okay, i didnt drink for quite some time and honestly the biggest problem was acceptence from my social-surroundings. People found it weird when i declined their beer and honestly i felt offended when everyone was being bought beer then they would look at me and offered me nothing instead. I know its because they’re not used to thinking about these things but it feels painful.

I havent so much felt the need to drink for the sake of getting drunk, i feel the need to drink to fit in this fucking party mode because honestly i don’t enjoy these loud music screaming into each other’s ears thing if im not drunk. Big reveal: of course i dont enjoy it when im drunk !!! im just fucking annoyed and drunk at the same time. Not a good deal if you ask me.

So the WHOLE alcohol thing makes me sad and angry. I know that and i realize this fully and honestly. It seems there are people out there that are enjoying themselves with it but i guess were not all the same. The biggest hurdle is that sometimes people i love and care about connect and share a bond trough getting drunk and im left out. They handle themselves much better then i do when drunk, though i’ve realized there are alot of people with alcohol problems there too.

So last week i got drunk. And it was just stupid you know. Screaming and being stubborn beyond reason that kindof bullshit. And true lots of drunk people act like this. But i just do it whenever i get drunk. everytime. And actually what i thought the next day was: I was right when i stopped drinking last time. There is nothing to be gained for me in that direction. I’ve talked with my dad and i see how much happier he’s become. And if i can stop drinking for almost a year, then why the hell can i not stop drinking alltogether ? I’ve stopped smoking without intent to start again next year, for almost the same reasons. I was fed up with it. Sick of it. And stopped. This time im gonna kick out the fucking booze!

Did i tell you i didnt like those parties anyway??? !!!

thanks for letting me rant !


#7

So i was thinking that rewilding could offer some help here. I think the moment i felt the need to rewild i also wanted to get attuned to myself. To know myself and make things better. I think my inability to cope with alcohol could benefit from a wild perspective on things. Im not entirely sure yet how. but now you all know what my relation with alcohol is like. Beyond that i feel that my relation with alcohol has shown me different wounds to heal, wounds that reveal themselves when i drop my guard.

What id like is some help on how to talk to myself. With the hidden places inside me. I also feel the need to grief big time and i will have to try to drop those brickwalls i’ve built. I feel these things could help me a long way. Any other ideas? Not just on how not to drink (though welcome), but also on how to heal the wounds that made us feel like drinking until we die in the first place. Because it makes me think that something in me needs to die, which means something needs to change…


#8

[i]“i realized that i didnt get from life what i wanted from it and i realized alcohol only served to keep me away from what i wanted.”

“i feel the need to drink to fit in this fucking party mode because honestly i don’t enjoy these loud music screaming into each other’s ears thing if im not drunk. Big reveal: of course i dont enjoy it when im drunk !!!”

“There is nothing to be gained for me in that direction.”

“if i can stop drinking for almost a year, then why the hell can i not stop drinking alltogether ?”

“The biggest hurdle is that sometimes people i love and care about connect and share a bond trough getting drunk and im left out.”[/i]

[i]“I think the moment i felt the need to rewild i also wanted to get attuned to myself.”

“…i feel that my relation with alcohol has shown me different wounds to heal, wounds that reveal themselves when i drop my guard.”

"Because it makes me think that something in me needs to die, which means something needs to change… "[/i]

These are the things that stand out for me when I read your posts timeLESS.

Again, I really encourage you to find support in what you are going to do. People you can call and talk to. People who will go out for coffee with you when you need to talk to someone or when you are feeling the urge to drink.
A good counselor will be able to help you work through the issues that you need to address.


#9

Timeless…

I’m so happy that you were able to connect your story with many, many thoughts about what you really want in life.

You seem to be very conscious of why you don’t want to drink. You are not in denial any more, and that’s huge. You are lucky, many people don’t get that far. I’m pleased (but not wholly surprised) that your discovery of rewilding has inspired you to want to break your addiction. I (for one) absolutely believe that rewilding can help you.

At this point you need a lot of support from people whom you can rely on. Please seek every recourse, and don’t be shy about sharing your experiences here. Billy, myself, and lots of the other forum members care about how you’re doing.

If you haven’t read My Name is Chellis… (yeah, the book that I talk about incessantly) I think it may hold a couple of pearls of wisdom for you. Chellis has some insightful things to say about the nature of addiction. (You can take or leave this advice, I’m just reminding you about it.)


#10

hey timeLESS,

just another voice of support–not that I have a whole lot to add. I hope you can hear clearly your own voice guiding you where to go next.

I agree, too, that hanging out with people really into something you’d like to stop doing presents a challenge.

How to heal the wounds? Whoa. Wish I had that answer too. :-\


#11

TimeLESS, I remember you asked once if there were any rewilders on the forum who live near you.

Can you think of other ways to seek them out?


#12

addictions are a scary thing to deal with, eh? I’ve been trying to quit smoking but haven’t had even a drop of success.

A good friend of mine is a recovering alcoholic. He’s been sober for over 10 years now. At the time when he decided to quit, he was drinking a twelve pack of beer per night. He said it wasn’t easy, and partially involved getting new friends and avoiding that scene all together. Several years later, he was living in a housing co-op notorious for its parties and alcoholic tenancies. He kept up with everyone by drinking what we call “near beer” (aka Non-Alcoholic beer). He’s even gone out to bars with us, downing pop while the rest of us drank our beer and mixed drinks. To this day, he hasn’t touched a drop of alcohol.

Do you and your friends have other things in common? Is there another activity you’s could do together instead? When they go to party, do you have a hobby you could work on instead? Whenever I’ve cut down or tried to quit smoking I have to find myself something to do at all times to keep my mind off it. It’s the sort of substitution rule–when one wants to stop a bad habit, it’s generally helpful to replace it (ideally with something that is not a habit or otherwise self-destructive!). Rewilding definately can help here, too.

Basically, to quit anything, the best method seems to be avoiding the substance and anyone currently abusing it all together. I concur with the advice suggesting finding a friend or two to go have coffee with when you get urges.

Good luck to you, timeless!


#13

ThanX for all the support! Its much appreciated!

For me an important part on the road to understanding this problem was that NOT drinking does not “solve” the problem of alcoholism. It is still there waiting… Understanding this has been very important for me. It tells me there is no right time to try and see how i will react this time. Also i live in squatted housing co-op that has a BAR!! dangerous material for sure :o. Some effort is being put in making that bar less about drinking and more about activities, for instance this week we’re trying to organize an improv evening, i think that will make things easier because i can totally shift attention to improv games. But we’ll see.

The hard part might be remembering that the shitty moments really were shitty moments and not fun moments of connecting with friends. So i will try and make up a way to remember my story. Maybe thats an idea.

[quote=“BlueHeron, post:11, topic:814”]TimeLESS, I remember you asked once if there were any rewilders on the forum who live near you.

Can you think of other ways to seek them out?[/quote]

Hmm im not sure there are some friends that im getting interested, im taking them gathering and they seem to have lots of fun doing that! They’re both housemates of mine.

[quote=“yarrow dreamer, post:10, topic:814”]hey timeLESS,

just another voice of support–not that I have a whole lot to add. I hope you can hear clearly your own voice guiding you where to go next.

How to heal the wounds? Whoa. Wish I had that answer too. :-[/quote]

Yes i pretty much know where im going from here, just by writing this stuff down somewhere. That has already helped me alot.

[quote=“BlueHeron, post:9, topic:814”]Timeless…

I’m so happy that you were able to connect your story with many, many thoughts about what you really want in life.

You seem to be very conscious of why you don’t want to drink. You are not in denial any more, and that’s huge. You are lucky, many people don’t get that far. I’m pleased (but not wholly surprised) that your discovery of rewilding has inspired you to want to break your addiction. I (for one) absolutely believe that rewilding can help you.

At this point you need a lot of support from people whom you can rely on. Please seek every recourse, and don’t be shy about sharing your experiences here. Billy, myself, and lots of the other forum members care about how you’re doing.

If you haven’t read My Name is Chellis… (yeah, the book that I talk about incessantly) I think it may hold a couple of pearls of wisdom for you. Chellis has some insightful things to say about the nature of addiction. (You can take or leave this advice, I’m just reminding you about it.)[/quote]

Rewilding made me question the totality of my existance. That includes my inner world. which as shown i found to be wounded and hurt as much as the world around me. I’ll look that book up because i’ve heard it mentioned here quite a few times… probably have to buy it somewhere haha

As to “coffee-people” there’s she-who-partners-with-me and i was thinking on telling my house-mates exactly where i stand right now so there wont be any confusion and they’ll be aware of my problems. Also i will talk more with my dad which is cool no matter what the situation!

When i quit smoking i drank lots and lots of water all the time! That was nice actually!

[quote=“heyvictor, post:8, topic:814”]Again, I really encourage you to find support in what you are going to do. People you can call and talk to. People who will go out for coffee with you when you need to talk to someone or when you are feeling the urge to drink.
A good counselor will be able to help you work through the issues that you need to address.[/quote]

I like the idea of “coffee-people” and would want to have some even i wouldnt have this problem. Thanks for your advice Heyvictor!

Thanks all!


#14

Hey. I’ve been reading this thread very closely. I’ve actually had a blog “alcoholism vs rewilding” that I’ve been working on since the last thread about drinking.

It’s been 8 months I guess since my last drink. I definitely agree with HeyVictor that you need to change the culture of friends you interact with. I was only able to quit because I had good friends who didn’t drink that I could hang out with. I actually quit drinking and smoking at the same time, because for me, they go hand in hand. Though, cigarettes also go well with coffee, so I had to quit that too for a while. I didn’t really have coffee shop friends to find because most of my friends and I already go to coffee shops all the time! Haha. I basically just exercised and hung out by myself for a few months. Than I got a girlfriend who didn’t drink or smoke either and we were together for almost a year. Than I drank again for about a month, nearly died at the end of the month, quit drinking again and got another girlfriend (Penny Scout) that doesn’t really drink much.

I don’t think I’m so much addicted to the alcohol as I am the club culture. I’ll admit it, I like getting dressed up and thinking I look like hot shit and flaunting it. I like going out and being seen. I think that’s a human thing, I see nothing wrong with it. It just so happens that drinking/smoking/annoying loud music also happens to accompany that culture and so I feel pressured to drink, than inspired to. Than I feel inspired to get really fucking drunk until I nearly die. Because I have a psychological need to dress up and show off how hot and hip my friends and I look, and the only “mainstream” place to do that in civilization is at the club, and the only drink available is booze, and everyone in civilization suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder, many of us cannot keep our heads above water and fall prey to the demon of alcohol and many other drugs (want to go to the bathroom for a minute?).

I still have cravings to go to bars and shows and I think, why do I really want to go out? I went to a show (JUSTICE) with my sister a few weeks back (didn’t drink, wore earplugs) and I had a really boring time. I didn’t think it was because I wasn’t drunk, but because I didn’t see anyone I knew there. I hate that. There was a bar I used to go to full of hipsters that I would go to to show off my shit and see my friends. I knew almost everyone who would walk in the bar and would meet all the people I didn’t know. People make fun of hipsters as being pretentious and obsessed with fashion, but I rarely met any pretentious people. I also think that people who don’t dress with the hipster aesthetic still care just as much about their image, whether they dress “preppy” or “hip-hop” or “cowboy” or whatever. Everyone likes to dress up in what their particular subculture finds sexy and cool, and go out and flaunt it. Anyone who says differently is a liar.

While at the show I didn’t crave a drink or a smoke, but I craved being seen. Being noticed. Being recognized for having a silly outfit on. I didn’t see anyone I knew and I left with a kind of cultural blue balls. I’ve felt this the last few times I’ve gone out.


#15

Ha ha, cultural blueballs :smiley:
US, Yeah that is really difficult. Like timeLESS has said, I find a lot of parallels between this discussion and our process of rewilding. I’m looking forward to see what you have to say in your blog.

Trying to keep a foot in both worlds can appear do-able if you are watching someone who has already put a lot of time and work into staying sober and has stayed clean and sober for some time, and who also has done a lot of work on the issues that lead them to drink or use.

When you are still in the early stages of your struggle with the addiction though, you need to retreat to a safe place to do that work.


#16

Urban Scout, that’s generally how I am with drinking, too. I just love to go out. I was at a bar one time and was talking to two Iranian guys who were drinking water. I commented that I thought it impressive they could be around drunks at a bar and drink water. I know it’s illegal over there, but I couldn’t wrap my head around being around alcohol and enjoying it if I don’t drink (my friend I previously mentioned puzzled me too, but I was glad he’d go out with us). They told me back home, they have clubs that go on all night, but alcohol is forbidden in that country so people dance and have fun completely sober. I hope someday a club like that would actually be successful where I live, but given that alcohol is a staple of Omaha and cocaine has been all over the place like the plague, I am a bit doubtful anyone would go.

I used to (try to) do the Eastern Orthodox Lenten fast every Lent season, which includes abstaining from alcohol (as well as all animal products and cooking oils and sugar) and I had no problem going to shows and parties without drinking. In fact I think I had the most fun doing that. However, last year I tried to go out without drinking for any reason at all, and wound up coming home drunk. I’m sort of getting to that point where I too think I need to just quit full stop. I’ve been drinking way too much this year, even at my house by myself and that’s never a good sign. My boyfriend recently developed an allergy to alcohol (his father has it too) and has completely quit drinking and smoking, so I’m hopeful he’ll be a good influence on me.


#17

Havent been drinking since last post here and generally i am doing very well. I feel my thoughts have come apart alittle. I have to cope with moods in different more direct/involved/conscious ways now. I feel changed and its kindof difficult but it will be all good in the long run.


#18

TimeLESS, what do you mean when you say your thoughts have come apart?

I’ll bet that when they come back together again, they will have more wisdom to share.

Congratulations and keep it up!


#19

Well not drinking forces you to deal with all kinds of issues in a very confronting way.
I stopped smoking several years ago. When i stopped i had to confront anxiety fear and other kindof moods and thoughts / issues without the soothing comfort offered by smoking. That meant i had to deal with some emotions and feelings all by myself. This forces a person to take a really close and critical look upon itself.

With booze its the same way. Lots of the culture i reside in revolves around booze and booze can make up a large part of your experience of life. Not taking booze forces me to deal with issues on a much more intense level. I have to deal with things that bother me, frighten me, things i’ve had safely hidden away or forgot. Not drinking gives me time to think and rethink many many things and basically drastically alters even shatters the experience of life as i knew it. Everything has to be requestioned i guess. Reformulated. experienced anew. I guess that makes my thoughts seem chaotic and very very active, without the consolation offered by booze and cigarettes i am confronted by these many many feelings. Sometimes thats a bit much.

thanks for asking!


#20

a very specific type of loss of self control. sure. they call it alcoholism. you call it lack of self control. I find alcoholism a much better way and here’s why:

Ive practiced martial arts for many years and have a pretty good control of myself in that regard. No lack of self control here at all.
Also, i am at peak ability under stress. I think more focused more clearly under pressure, lots of self control again. There are more areas like these in which i feel confident like that.

yet when i drink but one drink. I loose it all. it is here and only here i loose my self control. Its called alcoholism and its not about people that cant control themselves its about people that cant control themselves when drinking or when faced with the possibilty of drinking.

So…When i drink i dont indeed “own up to my shit” as you put it. For me there is no such thing as drink until y’r full because i cant recognize when exactly i am indeed full. Thats why i dont drink at all, because i become a retarded drooling boy angry and confused. I cannot learn to control myself when drunk and frankly i dont see the point in that either. So i dont drink and honestly i dont see why you feel the need to call my or anyone else’s experiences “crock of bullshit” and " an easy excuse".

Summed up. Alcoholism is a more defined form of " lack of self control"