I had a dream about our forum last night! We were all having a gathering at a campground near my house. It was great. We had all types of people–most of us used our tag names, some wore masks to screw with the feds. But someone was being mean to my mom for not having any opinions and I yelled “THATS MY FUCKING MOM…SHE GREW UP HERE!” Another problem was there was so many people in the camground I couldn’t find a place far away from all of the people to sleep. My normal secret spot under the pines was all taken up. In fact there was a primtive skills camp for children (not related to us) in the field practicing some weird kind of archery that involved big rocks on sticks.

What do you think of that ? I think its interesting that I was so protective of my mom, because I’m not really like that and that I belived that the fact that my mom was living her whole life in the place she grew up was more important than any intellectual primtivist leanings. Because in a way I do think that.

What do people think about dreams? I remember mine very well. Ask Scout I dream about him all the time even though we’ve never met. I could go into much more detail on the dream above. If I start to write them down I remember more and more until I could write all day about what happened at night. I have recurring dreams of water, waterslides, big and small waves. I can and do lucid dream and can make myself with practice (I read Carlos Castenada when I was young). I certainly dream in color (I don’t know where aldous huxley got off claiming most people dream in b&w). I smell and taste and feel. All this seems to suggest that I would be talented at finding spiritual value in dreams. But I have never had a prophetic dream or a dream that helped me answer a question or gave me guidance and I rarely know how to interpret them. Sometimes in a lucid dream I’ll remember to say ask where something is, but it gives me a fake answer. Sometimes I have very angry dreams which I consider to be pressure valves for repressed emotion but otherwise they seem like a mishmash of whatever I was putting in my brain that day.

Last night I had a dream, I believe related to this forum too.

It was nighttime. My mother and I stood inside an indoor, blackened baseball field. A cougar, seemed to want to eat me and my mother. My mother found herself trapped behind it so I began to hit the ground with a stick. The cougar than became curious and furious of me charging closer and closer, each time I hit the ground it ran away only to come charging back. I figured I would die here. Then my mom shouted or something and it turned back on her. She ran and ran and had a good start so made it around the outside of the backstop (remember this took place in a indoor, blackened baseball field. As she ran toward me, cougar in hot pursuit, I opened the exit door and stood waiting for her to run through, which then I would jump through and close at the same time, sealing the cougar inside and getting us to safety. Well, my mother made it through the door but as I tried to close it the cougar got me and began tearing me to pieces. I woke up as this happened.

Funny how we both dreamed of our mothers. I forgot to mention I also have recurring dreams of being eaten by bears and lions. It doesn’t hurt…usually.

No body knows you better than your subconscious!

usually your dreams mean what you think they mean, it is a message for you, after all.

I too experience lucid dreams like that all the time. I dream of the groups I’m spending my time with, and sometimes my fears come up, but my jaw isn’t as clenched as it once was.

When I dream of acting in large groups, I sometimes feel as though we are really gathered together, in dreamspace, but very unsure what to do when we find each other. IF you beleive in the magic of other worlds, perhaps it’s not such a stretch to seek out those we encounter in meat space (and the internet is a meat space) in our dreams. I might be the one stirring the coals, I might be the one gathering berries and preparing lambics. We might be standing next to each other in a hunting party. If you manage to slip into lucid dreaming, try and get some of us to talk to you, ask us questions. Questions for me always open up my lucidity in the dream world.

Do you have a bedtime ally? Friends and familiar roads you travel?

Recently the water spirits have taken the forms of imprisoned dragons, rivers under the lock and key of pollution. I’m still working on what it all means… but I certainly feel it is my destiny.

I get the feeling that your dreams are very foretelling.

Alright TonyZ I’ll think about that.
P.S. If I run into you in my dreams what do you wanna do? You like swimming? I know this great little place with blue water thats always warm even in winter AND you can breathe under it.

So I said my dreams never tell me anything but that night i dreamed it was my friend’s birthday. I looked it up this morning and his birthday was actually March 3rd. I forgot. I guess that was kind of a “fuck you” from the dream world, as in, “Oh I can tell you stuff, You just don’t listen. Well listen to this. You forgot your friend’s birthday. Bitch.”

Also I dreamed that I knew these two guys and instead of studying pressure releases they were absolutely obsessed with studying pleasure releases. They wanted to be the greatest massage artists that ever lived. Now that’s my kind of tracker.

That would be gret to go swiming. And here I thought it was getting warmer …brrrr… Speaking of getting tricked!

I kept waking up last night because I was having not quite a nightmare, but I kept dreaming that I couldn’t get ready fast enough to catch my plane back home from New Orleans. There was these constant elements of bad timing. I was creek stomping with friends (of the Louisiana nature), picking up rocks and fossils and artifacts, and I just felt obbsessed with time and worrying about getting ym shit together.

I’m trying to pack my car so I’m not late for my plane!

Just crazy stuff. Swimming would be a nice alternative to my recent dreams of consternation, epecially if it’s water I can breathe!

If there’s time maybe we can fly around and watch the people build their sandcastles…

What do you think of that ?

Did your mother grow up in a campground-esque environment? Did you? If not I’d say possibly by stating “SHE GREW UP HERE” defensively you made an attempt to reconcile your civilized childhood values, instilled by your parents, with any new conflicting wildish values.

I remember one vivid and intense dream I had during my early teens in which I left my parents behind while walking with them on a beach, turned around, noticed they couldn’t keep up and began to weep. That dream helped me to realize I had to erase their influence entirely and explore my own way of living, my own highly individualized insanity, no matter how painful the severance.

I’ve had a few interesting dreams lately. One was sorta kinda maybe inspired by all this wild wild wild talk. It took place in an entirely white room. In this entirely white room stood an older balding heavily pierced pudgy Corey Feldman. He exclaimed loudly “Once you start shapeshifting, you’re going to think you’re the best. NAH-AH. You’re the most delusional.” and started dancing spasmodically. Then my point of view spun around as if I held a camera and pointed it at myself, and I looked at myself and said “WHO COMES UP WITH THIS SHIT?”

I also had a great one recently where I stood about 10 feet tall and must have wayed half a ton. I had a giant platter resting on my giant belly pilled with peanutbutter/hotdog/marshmellow/cheese sandwhiches which I kept dunking in crisco. The first part of the dream occured in a park, with butterflies and other people lounging under umbrellas and throwing frisbees with dogs and all that, and after speedily mowing down the grub I took a walk to a gas station in a city, bought a beanie hat with the helicopter spinner on top, started to cross the street, and decided to sit down on the curb of a grassy median. THEN the GZA from Wu-Tang Clan sat down next to me and set down his own giant platter of fluffy pastry-like blunts and we started to talk in a frenzy while watching these neon-bright skyscrapers sway in all different directions. I remember only one thing the GZA said to me, “You know some wicked shit, man. I tell you I’m havin a bad day, and you let me know you’re already thinking of ways to kill the motherfucker responsible.” and then he started laughing like a madman.

I could keep going. I’ll spare you the blabber.

shapeshifters always get jealous when people learn what they were born into. I call them the Gandharvas, others call them something different.

keep seeking them out, if you corner them with a question they will give you an answer!


urg. For whatever reason, bad things happen whenever I enter water in my dreams (no, I’m not afraid of water). If I have a need to cross water in my dreams, I find someone to carry me across.

Really don’t know what that’s about, but there it is.

sounds like it’s an important element in your life you were taught to repress, ignore, or otherwise subdue, what was once a conscious effort has seeped into your subconscious, and now you don’t even understand it.

won’t pretend to know you, but did anyone make you afraid of swimming when you were a little kid?

were you ever teased or have any traumatic experiences of someone point out that you did anything ‘like a girl’?

are you rigid or have control issues in which the you would have to suppress more fluid emotions and feelings in order to stay true to your ‘system’.

Could mean a lot of things, but the only that is important is what it means to yourself.


At the tracker school philosophy class I learned some great guidelines for what to do with dreams/non-linear messages. Then I found a book Living Your Dreams that employs the exact same philosophy and fleshes it out somewhat.

I really encourage anyone fascinated by dreams to check this book out…

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Interesting book, Willem.

Form the book, there were four intersting points of view:

  1. We are the producers of our own dreams

  2. We are the screenwriters of our own dreams

  3. We are the directors of our own dreams

  4. We are the stars of our own dreams

I don’t know if this list goes on, but it was her ‘minimalist model’ of dreaming, as far as the peek inside the book feature from amazon could tell me…

I have this recurring dream, the best dream i’ve ever had, and last night Scout, Tony, Penny and Willem were in it. I thought I would report it.

We were all standing on a beach of a crescent shaped atoll. The island is surrounded by mountains. We are all wearing loincloths(Penny, yours was, shall I say, very revealing :slight_smile: ) with warpaint and fire hardened spears. Icould tell everyone was agitated, and nervous about what was going to happen.

I hear this extremely loud roar, and look up to the east and see a beautiful chinese dragon come roaring and streaking over the top of the mountains towards us. It is orange with green and purple highlights streaking all over it’s body, with a black stomach. It strafes the beach blowing fire, and everyone begins running and throwing spears at it. I run towards the water, thinking that fire and water don’t mix. A bunch of the tribe have the same idea, and I see Scout do this amazing leap, throwing his spear in mid-air, striking the dragon, then diving into the water, all in one motion. I dive into the ocean, and look back and see it flying over the water. It climbs high, then dives in. It passed about 15 feet away, and it’s eye is larger than I am. I throw my spear (underwater LOL) and stab it in the eye. It screams and leaps out of the water. The ensuing wave flings me high up into the air, and I see a picture I’ll never forget. The Dragon, strafing the beach, blowing fire and screaming angrily, while the tribe tries to fight it. I hit the water and grab another spear I see floating near me. The Dragon comes back into the water, vengenance on it’s mind, and arrows towards me. I see it coming and have enough time to think “I’m Dead” before it tries to eat me. I manage to stab it in the gums and it pushes me deeper and deeper in the water. As i reach a rock formation at the bottom, it turns away from me, pulling the spear from my hand. I see it turn back towards me, and think “i better hide amongst these rocks before it eats me”. I dive into a cave as the Dragon reaches me. I swim deeper and see a tartan covered door with a pull ring handle at the bottom. The dragon sticks it’s snout into the cave and tries to suck me out into it’s mouth. I hold on to the ring for dear life, seeing and feeling my biceps straining, all the time thinking “this is the end of Rory, not a bad way to die”. After an endless moment of strain, the Dragon stops sucking and I notice a zippo lighter on the cave floor. I grab it and swim out of the cave. The Dragon is nowhere in sight. I swim towards the surface, lungs straining, and breast the waves. I look and see the Dragon making runs over the beach, blowing fire, but gaining altitude with each pass. I swim towards the beach, watching the Dragon get higher and higher, and as I reach the beach, it screams one last time and flies over the mountains. I walk out onto the beach, zippo still in hand, and see Scout, Tony, Penny and Willem smiling the “Goddamn it is great to be alive smile”, a little bruised and cut, but none too worse for the wear. I walk up and greet them, and after a moment of “you made it, hell yeah!!” jubilation, we turn to tend to the wounded.

I have this dream about once a month, and I love it. I always wake up excited, with my heart pounding and my adrenaline pumping. Everytime I tell the story i get some juice just reliving it mentally. The only downside is when I have it at 2:00 AM and can’t sleep anymore that night. Last night’s was about 630 AM, so it wasn’t too bad. First time anyone else i know showed up though.

Any speculations on what this dream means?

Ha! Are you serious? That’s a great dream. I don’t know what it means, but do you know that I live in Bradford where they manufacture zippo lighters? We have lighter shaped street lamps and everything. It’s got to be a sign.

seriously, I have that dream fairly often. First time any of ya’ll were ion it though. That’s pretty funny that you live in zippoland. I’ve always wondered what that part of the dream is about.

I’ve always had very very vivid dreams. I could talk about them forever.

fascinating correlation you two have there.

i’m interested in what YOU think that dream means, sounds pretty powerful. dragons are powerful presences, regardless of any ‘intrinsic’ meaning they hint at the potential of the vertebrate, unbridled energy, many other obvious archetypes.

That you have friends on your quest means that somewhere you are psychologically forming your party.

The zippo thing is pretty fascinating…


awesome, over the past 2 years my dreams have become the greatest influence on my emotional healing, spiritual growth and self-awareness. i think that the only person person who can interpret dreams is the one who does the dreaming. though i have taken a lot of what i’ve learned about dreamwork from authors, poets, shamans(?), psychologists etc. dreams are the little messages we get from our subconcious telling us about ourselves. whether or not they can be clairvoyant or gateways into other realms is, as of yet, out of my grasp.
so glad this was brought up. i’ll go through my dream journal and see if there are any worth sharing.

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Ok, last night I had my 3rd dream about kidnapping this week.

All different kids each time (1st & 2nd were boys, 3rd was a boy & a girl). All young (5-9 range). All were victims (or potential victims) of people that they knew at least a little bit.

In the 1st dream, I was able to prevent it; in the 2nd one, it happened long before I arrived “on the scene” and was just trying to help resolve things (unsuccessfully); in the 3rd one, again, it happened before I arrived “on the scene” and managed to find the kids, but when the dream ended I had the sense that it wasn’t really “complete”.

I’m fairly certain literal interpretations are right out, as I don’t know any kids (or parents!) that are even remotely in this kind of situation. And nothing symbolic or metaphorical or whatever jumps out at me either. Any ideas…?

I had a crazy dream last night involving tribes, magic, and domestication:

I was part of a gyspy-like band and we had just moved to a nice, new, DRY camping spot on a beach with a rock overhang and plenty of standing dead wood. My job was to collect the firewood so I started breaking dead striped maples and throwing them down to the fire ring. Some guy down below said, “only pick dry wood” and I said, “it IS dry!”

I continued to pick wood for awhile but one time I turned around and there was none left at all. A creepy troll guy on the end of the platform i was standing on told me to go away. I turned back to the fire and now my tribe was made partly of weird creatures like you would find in the hobbit or the labyrinth. They were all men (the weird ones). Four of them were gathered around the fire hogging it and being boisterous and I was picking up very bad vibes, drunken agressive male vibes. I told my family (not sure if they were my children or my friends or my friend’s children) that we should go back to last night’s spot to camp.

Most of them were already playing up on top of the cliff and I scrambled up the ladder. It came up into a fancy but run down old house where a bunch of people were seating around a dining room hanging out. I went off looking for the children and discovered another elaborately laid dining room table. When i opened the roll basket to peek inside there were the children (12 of them) inside like little cabbage patch dolls! The troll creatures had transformed them by magic and they were going to have a feast on them, and unwittingly the rest of the tribe would eat them too. I had to save them. But no one knew the children were missing because the trolls thought far enough ahead to create duplicates who looked and played like real children.

I asked frantically around the first dining room for a magician. A woman told me to find “owl man.” I said I didn’t know who owl man was, so she said, “well did you ask Katie?” ( a real life friend). Of course Katie! I knew where she was too. Katie was not so much into the tribe and was out on a rooftop with a few other people watching the sunset, learning lessons about nature from this witch type guy, and probably smoking pot. Time was running out. Everyone was gathering in the dining room for the feast. They began to say grace. I didn’t know how I was going to crawl out the window to find Katie without being noticed, and of course all sorts of evil people were out to stop me from my quest. You never knew who might be in on the secret, but most didn’t know yet that I knew and thefore they wouldn’t stop me unless I acted like something was wrong.

Luckily part of the grace involved an old tradition of opening the windows , so that part was done. Then I claimed sickness. I said i felt nauseous. I might vomit. I needed air. Once my head was out the window i slipped quickly out before anyone could grab my ankle and began swinging on vines or wires from window to window around this tall old building until I came to the roof that Katie was on. She was alone. I started to babble to her frantically, panting , “The children. They’ve been shrunk. They are going to eat them. You have to help. It’s because of your hair. (Katie has white-blonde hair, in the dream this signified her inherent magical birthrite.) I know this sounds crazy, but you have to do it.”
Luckily Katie didn’t protest or question me. She seemed to know this day would come when she would have to come of age and accept her magic. She ran inside and I ran after her saying, “They told me to find owl man, and then said to ask you. I don’t know if you are supposed to find owl man, or if you are a replacement for owl man.” Katie knew what to do.

Back in the dining room they had not yet started eating. Entertainment and dancing were going on. Katie pulled out a bird puppet from her pocket and approached a man with an owl… Could this be owl man?..but now there were owls all over, like in harry potter. She flapped her bird puppet at him and he shook his head no. Next to the man stood a small girl playing with an owl puppet. Katie flapped her bird puppet at the girl and the owl puppet began magically to speak. It told her which way to go to find owl man and she took off.

Meanwhile, i felt a hand on my shoulder and was seized by a sinister looking man in a purple velvet suit with a black mustache. He was the magician who had turned to the children into bread rolls. He knew what i was up to, but he couldn’t show it in front of everyone or they would know something was wrong. He asked me to dance. I refused to dance with him and bit his hand. A chunk of flesh came off. i was not sure whether to be hardcore and swallow it or spit it out. Would I gain a bit of his power if I swallowed it or would I only gain his evil?. I decided to be on the safe side and spit it out. I attemped to kick him in the head but he held me at arms length and kept leaning backwards out of my way, matrix style. “Neat trick I’ve learned huh?” he taunted me. I continuted to stuggle. Everyone was watching now, but since he wasn’t attacking me back at all I looked like the crazy one. He continued…“You think your little friend’s going to save you. Well she’s going to be domesticated like the rest of us before long. As soon as she starts taking her birth control pills…”

Then I woke up.

Nuts huh!? So many archaic and symbolic elements. Trolls eat children and men in velvet suits and top hats are evil. Alcohol makes them even more so. The man didn’t trust a woman to be smart enough to get dry wood. The fact that there were exactly twelve children-- such a fairytale number. That it was up to the pot smoking (connotes rebellion) nature loving (pagan) loner to save the day. The owl man (has a white owl, practicioner of benevolent magic). That there exists a race of people (maybe everyone at one time long ago) who are magic by blood, but who have all but died out due to the influence of technology and civilization. The eating of the flesh denoting power both psychologically and physically. Synthetic birth control pills stilfing a woman’s inherent moon power…