Wisdom, age, figuring it all out

Visions of the Rewilding Renaissance Rewilding Mind & Heart
#1

For some reason as I am reading here today this theme keeps coming up for me.
When I was younger, I operated on an unconcious assumption that there would come a time when I would basically have figured out most of what I needed to figure out in life and from that point on I would just live my life as all the other “grown ups” who had arrived at that point for themselves. If you had asked me about it then I would have denied it but looking back I see that’s how I thought. I honestly thought that most other older people that I knew had arrived at that point.

So now at fifty, I realize that I still have not arrived, which I guess means that I’m not really a grown up. I’m still figuring things out as I go along and I find that all the other poeple I know around my age say the same thing. In fact, my wife works at a nursing home and she says the people there in their 80’s and 90’s tell her the same thing.

I am continually coming to new understandings about things that 10 or 15 years ago I thought I already had figured out. It seems to me that we get basic understanding and sometimes we find out later that we were off base with that, but sometimes we get a deeper understanding that doesn’t negate what we started out with, it goes deeper to the heart of things. This stuff keeps happening our whole life.

I used to have this little plaque that said, “Go as far as you can see, when you get there you will be able to see farther.”

Just thought I’d throw that out there.

#2

i think this in an interesting idea. as a younger guy, about to graduate from university, i can say that i have long worked with those same hidden assumptions. i assumed adults knew what they were doing, not fully, but i assumed they at least “knew” in ways i did not know. a number of things have led me to realize otherwise, that grown-ups in this culture, by and large, really have no idea what they are doing. i don’t think that counts for everyone, but as i enter the adult world (i still feel slighted missing out on any kind of real rite-of-passage) i feel more and more that most of the “adults” are just as clueless and insecure as any high schooler. this frightens me quite a bit. where have elders gone?

#3

“…but i assumed they at least “knew” in ways i did not know.”

That’s the thing, they probably did know in ways that you didn’t and one of the things they knew was that they didn’t have it all figured out and probably never would, even though they would never let you know that.

If you think about all the stuff that you believe you have pretty well figured out at this point in your life, I’m willing to bet that 20 years from now those ideas will at least be significantly modified if you haven’t completely tossed them and that process continues on until you leave this world. That’s healthy!

Since I have realized that I don’t have to have everything all figured out and that nobody, including my mom and all my teachers ever did, and the idea that they ever could is laughable, it has freed me from a lot of judgement and feelings of failure or inadequacy. I can see that they were doing the best they could with what they had to work with and so am I.

Now I see that whatever I have figured out right now is just that and I can remain open to new and deeper understandings to continue to reveal themselves to me all the time. It’s exciting. It will be like that right up until I take my last breath and beyond. I’m not a failure as a grown up.

#4

Heyvictor, I may Have accidentally stolen your adulthood. Sorry. ;D

I think there are many reasons that many people feel they aren’t “grown up”

Part of it comes from the ageism of the 50’s and 60’s counterculture. You know, 'don’t trust anyone over 30." Being an adult is linked to being stuffy, boring, conservative.

When the free love and rock and roll part of that movement was co-opted by the mainstream, the already existing social pressure to be young grew exponentially. We are subjected to a constant barrage of products aimed at keeping us young. We’re referred to as children at heart. Most characters in fiction are somewhere in their twenties. Adults star as high school kids in teen movies.

Children are more "adult’ these days, we are constantly told. In many ways childhood is less childish. So there is less distinction between it and adulthood.

Plus adulthood is all about responsibilty, which is something that modern american try to avoid.

school now continues well into adulthood, meaning that people honestly ready to move on are made to keep repeating the same things they did as a kid.

That’s all about how our culture tries to prevent us from growing up. It also, and perhaps more importantly, fails to facilitate growing up. There is no accepted “right of passage” into adulthood. without a culturally recognized demarcaction between the two, it’s really hard to feel that youve crossed a threshold.

I had it easy. I became an adult the day my wife and I decided to keep the child we made. We were both 19, and it made a very clear point that we were no longer teenagers, and it was time to get our shit together.

#5

I don’t think that there is such a thing as “grown up.” I’ve gone through many stages of relative maturity/immaturity and it has had very little to do with actual age. The past year or so I’ve been relatively immature, especially compared to when I was 15/16/17 and I had a stable emotional handle on things. I “whined” a lot less as a teenager, that’s for sure.

Then again, as a teenager, I believed that my options were very limited, so I accepted my role in civilization without whining (it served no practical purpose). Now that I recognize what I missed growing up (chiefly, healthy emotional attachments to my family and community), I have had a lot of “whining” - or, done right, “grieving” - to do.

#6

Hey Victor,

I have a similar feeling as you, but slightly different.

I have the same feelings about being an adult and understanding things. What that I imagine it to feel like is more solid footing, feeling like things will get easier. Instead, life gets more complex and difficult and frustrating the older I get. I thought at some point things would get easier. It’s like I have this feeling that I have been told if I get a wife, my life will be easier. If I have kids, my life will be easier… because it’s the right thing to do right? But all those things just add to the complexity of your life and bring 10 times the responsibility and stress load, and civilization has little more than pharmaceuticals to help with the added stress of life.

I’m getting to the point now where this ideal of things getting easier is dying and I’m beginging to realize that if I’m going to keep getting older, I’m going to need to really take care of myself and find more ways of relieving stress.

#7

Yes US that’s part of what I’m talking about.
In my life, I have found that accepting and embracing some of those responsibilities, complications, and stresses (in your own creative way) that you mention, can bring wonderful rewards and growth and really expand and deepen you as a person.
Even if you are totally flying by the seat of your pants,maybe especially if you are totally flying by the seat of your pants.

Actually that’s what I was talking about earlier is realizing that not only is it ok to be unsure how your going to pull things off, but it’s normal and everybody feels that way. Even the ones who seem to have it all together. That feeling doesn’t really go away from what my elderly friends say.

#8

What I’m wondering is, how many of those complications and stresses are created and/or magnified by the sickly society that has raised us, and how much of it is just a part of life, no matter what?

#9

I think death and loss are with us no matter what. I think grief will be with us no matter what. But I think an inability to cope with aging and different stages of life (e.g. the midlife crisis phenomenon, the lack of a rite-of-passage into adulthood) and widespread alienation are particular creations of the civilized world.

#10

I feel sometimes as if modern culture tries to dissect everything into parts to understand what is happening(descartes??). in doing so they have also cut off a thing that is now made the concept of death. death seperate from life that is. we’re scared of the death seperate from life concept and thus of the transformation of our lives that brings us closer to this flawed concept. Living a life close to nature would be highly beneficial for the fear of age and death because a life in close contact and understanding with nature would create an understanding that death and life are the same circle. transformation.

#11

I think there is a distinct separation between childhood and adulthood. Adulthood is when you are competent enough to take care of yourself and others, and mature enough to take responsibility for your actions. I think our current culture channels the first by making us think competency is narrowly focused on a career, and then teaches us that responsibility is something to avoid. In doing so it robs us of our maturity.

(incidentally, we have a joke in my family that goes like this; “when I was growing up, my Mother taught me to be responsible. So when the back door was broken, I was responsible. When my sister was died blue, I was responsible. When the school was in open revolt, I was responsible. etc.”)

On the other hand, civilization also redefines adulthood for itself as being a sufficiently broken person to act as a cog in it’s death machine. Under that definition it’s no wonder most of us don’t feel like adults.

I think that many of the adults from our childhood DID have a better sense of things than we do. Or at least a different sense. Perhaps they were more consistent but narrower, with a greater sense of purpose but more closed-minded. Better at certain things like eliminating doubt. In other words, they only THOUGHT they had it all figured out. We know better.

#12

Our Father the government and the corporations, take care of us, keep us safe, keep us healthy.

#13

Exactly. And this keeps everyone around us as spoiled children.

#14

???

maybe i’m jaded and/or cynical, but, really, i can’t say as i’ve had much government or corporate hand-outs, and i’ve lived pretty poor for large chunks of my life. i think it’s fair to say that i’ve done well in spite of the gov and corps instead of being supported by them.

#15

I’m sure you’ve received very little handouts but that doesn’t mean they don’t support you. And the you there isn’t a specific you, really. I’m confident in saying you’ve been at least partially supported by the corporate system because they’ve made it so they are the only place to gt your necessities. Then, you have to do what they say, or you can’t get access to what you need to live. I’ve lived poor most of my life, and that’s only made me more aware how much favor I have to curry to the system in order to eat.