The Cages That Bind Us

Visions of the Rewilding Renaissance Rewilding Mind & Heart
#1

What does it mean to be domesticated?

Many have pointed out that private property is one of the most unnatural vices that man has created for himself which is the hallmark of civilization and society. As Proudhon would say private property is theft.

Is not a house of private property a cage?

You truely don’t own your house for if it was yours you wouldn’t have to exploit yourself just to keep it. The electric,water,gas, and local state associations are the true owners of your house if you really think about it.

Who is in control? Those who think they live such sweet independent lives only fool themselves.

Your house is not your own for it is only a place of rest like a cellar for the next day of exploitation,servitude and entrapment. Your dwelling is not your own.

#2

I can’t remember which quotesmith it was that said…

Few rich men own property. The property owns them.
#3

[quote=“Kaliverdant, post:2, topic:233”]I can’t remember which quotesmith it was that said…

That is a good quote.

I think I will use it for now on. :smiley:

#4

It is such an entrapment.such a folly.
We really are only granted the ‘privilege’ to exist in these dwellings.
on stolen land,built with stolen ‘resources’,with broken backs and hearts.
A humyn’s home should have never been deemed his castle, instead it should have remained that the “great expanse” was his playground,sustenance,and the only true thing worth slaving for.
Indeed in this sense private property created crime, a crime of slavery.

#5

very true, i was recently talking to someone about slavery.

We were talking specifically about tribes in Guatemala, the takers made the tribal people in a kind of debt to them, so the takers would make them ‘work’ off their ‘debt’. but what the takers did was employ means to keep them constantly in debt, so they would have to keep working.

i found a striking similarity. In our culture today we are in a perpetual state of working so we dont’ get into debt. unlike the leavers who started working because they were in debt, we start working so we dont’ get into debt. we spend the rest of our lives trying to balance out work and debt. i came to the conclusion we are all in debt, some of us just further ahead than others, and others further behind.

just like the tribal people tricked into thinking they are in perpetual debt, we are tricked into it as well, working our whole life away to buy food that is right there for the taking, paying for our house, bills, and yes even freakin water.

freedom? HA! takers know no such thing. takers dont know what freedom is because they have NEVER had it, in a constant state of working so we dont’ get into debt we are little worker ants slaving away for mother culture.

by rewilding we are truly freeing ourselves.

#6

Do you think that it’s possible to free yourself from debt mentally while still being in it? Not to say that that is ALL one should do in a buddhisty sort of way, and that reality doesn’t matter. But if we believe civilization is going to come crashing to the ground why not play the game to its fullest and rack up all the debt we want. It’s all part of pre-emptive postapocalypticism baby.

#7
why not play the game to its fullest and rack up all the debt we want.

if civ was ending next week

#8

I’ve got debt and then some. No plans to pay off all my thousands (eleven and rising) in student loans. Perhaps I’ll get around to paying my taxes for last year, same with my open intoxicant ticket, for if I don’t I’ll go to jail next time the law is encountered. It’s not that I’m trying to rack up debt in some futile attempt at resistance, but rather no plans are in sight to pay it all off. The more a person tries to pay off the more they have to work, the less time they have of their own. Nietzsche said “Whoever does not have two-thirds of his day for himself, is a slave,” I don’t feel this is entirely off.

#9

if we see a dichotomy between ‘domesticated’ and ‘wild’, we are already domesticated.

i owe a lot of money, but i am not in debt.

#10

[quote=“tsuchi akurei, post:4, topic:233”]It is such an entrapment.such a folly.
We really are only granted the ‘privilege’ to exist in these dwellings.
on stolen land,built with stolen ‘resources’,with broken backs and hearts.
A humyn’s home should have never been deemed his castle, instead it should have remained that the “great expanse” was his playground,sustenance,and the only true thing worth slaving for.
Indeed in this sense private property created crime, a crime of slavery.[/quote]

My disgusts with civilization is that all the many forms of life that consists in a human being is made to be only a privelege for those who are willing to be exploited by others.

If you refuse to be exploited or being at the disposal of others they will find many nefarious ways of making your life fruitless without any privilege at all.

They will find the best entraptions with forms of alienation and dehumanization at their disposal in order to keep you enslaved.

It is ironic we call ourselves the intelligent species as all organisms in comparison to humans live life freely in a genuine freedom where the priveleges of living is free for all that consists of their kin so long that they have the strong will to survive.

#11

[quote=“New-Trbl-Revolution, post:5, topic:233”]very true, i was recently talking to someone about slavery.

We were talking specifically about tribes in Guatemala, the takers made the tribal people in a kind of debt to them, so the takers would make them ‘work’ off their ‘debt’. but what the takers did was employ means to keep them constantly in debt, so they would have to keep working.

i found a striking similarity. In our culture today we are in a perpetual state of working so we dont’ get into debt. unlike the leavers who started working because they were in debt, we start working so we dont’ get into debt. we spend the rest of our lives trying to balance out work and debt. i came to the conclusion we are all in debt, some of us just further ahead than others, and others further behind.

just like the tribal people tricked into thinking they are in perpetual debt, we are tricked into it as well, working our whole life away to buy food that is right there for the taking, paying for our house, bills, and yes even freakin water.

freedom? HA! takers know no such thing. takers dont know what freedom is because they have NEVER had it, in a constant state of working so we dont’ get into debt we are little worker ants slaving away for mother culture.

by rewilding we are truly freeing ourselves.[/quote]

Look up the proposition called the prisoner’s dillemma and then look at how a citizen lives his or her life by civilized rules in comparison.

You will find the differences to be minimal to none at all.

#12

No.

What is the point of being liberated mentally while you remain in shackles physically?

b[/b]

That’s a reality akin to that of the religious who lives a life full of inequality hoping the courts of heaven after death will give them redemption where those on earth have failed them completely in comparison. That fact alone is what makes me despise all religion.

#13

They only bind you if you allow them to. Real enslavement is being unaware that your that you are a slave.

#14

Enslavement comes in many forms and I would rather shed it completely being opposed to even one rope that hangs around my neck.

#15

the truth is that you are not enslaved, you are actually free.
your chains are self-imposed.
you can kill (which you are free to do), but you will get punished. freedom has consequences regardless if there is a society in place to deal with you.

#16

[quote=“grapefruit, post:15, topic:233”]the truth is that you are not enslaved, you are actually free.
your chains are self-imposed.
you can kill (which you are free to do), but you will get punished. freedom has consequences regardless if there is a society in place to deal with you.[/quote]

How is living in a civilization that is based on wage-slavery,subjugation of virtually all other cultures,species,it’s own populace,and wages ‘total war’ upon all others who don’t want to play this game,living freely?
Please expound upon how we are actually free.
Just because I have ‘the freedom’ to pay others to supply energy and broadband to me to be here on this community ,in this discussion,doesn’t mean I’m not a slave,or you aren’t either.
It’s far more expansive and deeply rooted than just ‘our self imposed’ shackles.

#17

[quote=“grapefruit, post:15, topic:233”]the truth is that you are not enslaved, you are actually free.
your chains are self-imposed.
you can kill (which you are free to do), but you will get punished. freedom has consequences regardless if there is a society in place to deal with you.[/quote]

If my enslavement was self imposed I would of been free a long time ago…

My chains are created by those who force all others at gun point from their ivory towers.

#18

[quote=“tsuchi akurei, post:16, topic:233”][quote author=grapefruit link=topic=233.msg3741#msg3741 date=1187374363]
the truth is that you are not enslaved, you are actually free.
your chains are self-imposed.
you can kill (which you are free to do), but you will get punished. freedom has consequences regardless if there is a society in place to deal with you.
[/quote]

How is living in a civilization that is based on wage-slavery,subjugation of virtually all other cultures,species,it’s own populace,and wages ‘total war’ upon all others who don’t want to play this game,living freely?
Please expound upon how we are actually free.
Just because I have ‘the freedom’ to pay others to supply energy and broadband to me to be here on this community ,in this discussion,doesn’t mean I’m not a slave,or you aren’t either.
It’s far more expansive and deeply rooted than just ‘our self imposed’ shackles.[/quote]

Exactly. I agree with you firmly.

#19

Your confusing freedom with free will. And you are wrong on both counts. It’s impossible to prove the existence or non-existence of free will. Most of us feel more comfortable with the idea that we have free will, but it doesn’t really pertain at all to the idea of freedom. Freedom is the ability to behave in a the manner you desire without consequences imposed by other people. There’s a world of difference between a naturally occuring consequence (if you walk off a cliff, you fall), and a human-imposed one (If you take this apple off the tree, you’ll be thrown in prison.) Now, most people (it seems) are all for their own personal freedom, but are scared of freedom for others. Because, as you can probably imagine, the two can be contraditory. If I’m free to do what I want, I’m free to impose on your freedom. If I can’t impose on your freedom, then that is an imposition on mine. How do we resolve this impasse?

Fuck if I know.

#20

[quote=“Andrew Jensen, post:19, topic:233”]Your confusing freedom with free will. And you are wrong on both counts. It’s impossible to prove the existence or non-existence of free will. Most of us feel more comfortable with the idea that we have free will, but it doesn’t really pertain at all to the idea of freedom. Freedom is the ability to behave in a the manner you desire without consequences imposed by other people. There’s a world of difference between a naturally occuring consequence (if you walk off a cliff, you fall), and a human-imposed one (If you take this apple off the tree, you’ll be thrown in prison.) Now, most people (it seems) are all for their own personal freedom, but are scared of freedom for others. Because, as you can probably imagine, the two can be contraditory. If I’m free to do what I want, I’m free to impose on your freedom. If I can’t impose on your freedom, then that is an imposition on mine. How do we resolve this impasse?

Fuck if I know.[/quote]

Freedom and free will exists I assure you but most never get to enjoy it completely by that of civilized society’s restraint and strangle hold onto its very being.

Get rid of civilized society and its imposing moral propositions that causes most suffering one could find the possibilities of freedom to be endless within nature.

Freedom is the ability to behave in a the manner you desire without consequences imposed by other people

Precisely. This is quite possible by those strong enough.

There's a world of difference between a naturally occuring consequence (if you walk off a cliff, you fall), and a human-imposed one (If you take this apple off the tree, you'll be thrown in prison.) Now, most people (it seems) are all for their own personal freedom, but are scared of freedom for others. Because, as you can probably imagine, the two can be contraditory. If I'm free to do what I want, I'm free to impose on your freedom. If I can't impose on your freedom, then that is an imposition on mine. How do we resolve this impasse?

Obviously it is only natural that nature imposes a limit onto what kind of freedom man can possess.

If I'm free to do what I want, I'm free to impose on your freedom. If I can't impose on your freedom, then that is an imposition on mine. How do we resolve this impasse?

Only the strong survive. I believe that natural conflicts occur all the time and only one human being out of such an event can remain victorious.

I am a amoralist if you haven’t figure it out yet.