Survivalists

Visions of the Rewilding Renaissance Common Misconceptions
#1

Oooo…a brand new board…shiny…

Okay. So, the oft seen macho-survivalist dudes you sometimes see in movies? Is this a pigeon-hole that you guys see yourselves thrown into sometimes?

For example, I love Dave Pollard, and his website. Though when he talks about the options for surviving the future catastrophes, he seems to fall into the same assumptions that civ-lovers do. He assumes (this is a generalization though, don’t get me wrong, the guy knows his shit) that those who want to abandon civilization are just survivalists who have nothing to contribute to the discussion about where to go from here.

How do we correct these assumptions? That primitive skills/ rewilding/ abandoning civ is more than just getting some guns and digging yourself in for the winter?

#2

Not having so many people who do want to get some guns and dig themselves in for the winter would help. The sorry truth is, we’re outnumbered. We’re only going to beat that stereotype over time, by keeping on rewilding, keeping on sharing our experience with others, and ultimately outlasting them. The longer we stick around, the more the message will get out.

#3

On the other hand, certain survivalists take to this kind of thinking than the average person on the street. Many already realize the problem, the whole system wants to collapse. They already seek to prepare themselves. They just have, shall we say, flawed ideas about how to handle it.

I hang out on a survivalist board known as “Zombie Squad” on occasion. Their whole schtick is that they prepare for outbreaks of zombies, like a Romero movie. So they take things a little less seriously than some groups do. I have had some interesting conversations there that touched on primitivism. Even when the philosophy fails to interest to them, learning primitive skills are. If you can stand the gun talk, I highly suggest lurking there for a spell. It entertains.

#4

I love Zombie Squad!

#5

My experience with survivalists is that the right-wing militia stereotype is not representative of the folks I have actually talked to or the forums I have read. They are more like mainstream folks who want to be somewhat self sufficient and prepared for emerencies, and who have less confidence in civ’s stability than the average Joe. It also seems common for them to be prepared for non-collapse emergencies by learning CPR, first responder and trauma training, which is cool.

I’m sure the ultra-right militia nuts are probably out there but they seem to be a minority. Even the Alpha Rubicon “long term” survivalist club is interested in homesteading, self sufficiency and primitive living skills, and as far as I am aware they don’t want any specific political view to be part of their organization.

I don’t see how buying surplus gear, having first-aid and hurricane prep kits and having guns for self defense and hunting somehow makes somebody into a bad stereotype. You can definitely be totally mainstream or an anarcho-primitivist-rewilder-whatever and still have that stuff.

Also most people who like shooting are not far-right nuts or survivalists, they just like shooting and collecting guns.

Obviously the main difference between me (or us) and them, to make a big generalization, is that I want civilization gone and when it collapses I do not want to try to keep it together or rebuild it. If anything I would like to help it collapse. For me, collapse is not a disaster it is a healing solution to an era of terribly harmful actions and philosophies, and a re-realization of what life is supposed to be about, and what the human role is supposed to be as a part of the ecosphere of this planet.

If people assumed I was a pro-civ “militant” survivalist, I hope my actions and words would correct their assumptions, but I am not afraid to be called a survivalist, and I don’t care to present myself to the mainstream for them to judge and categorize me.

#6

Oh sure, but the myth is still out there in force. It’s true, I haven’t met many (if any, truth be known) who really think digging in w/ lots of canned goods & ammo is the way to go, but that’s still the mental image many people first see.

#7

Also, a lot of the relatively normal people who get into survivalism enjoy the stereotype. They kinda like being mistaken for crazy militiamen.

#8

It’s odd,or maybe not, but the folks I know who are avid hunters,fisherpeople,and gun collectors totally love civilization.To the point that they really wouldn’t either know what I was talking about when referring to collapse and rewilding, or they would take my thoughts to be of those belonging to a uneducated overly romantic sap.I am really starting to feel however,that a working knowledge and experience of the survivalist,including gun use will be of major benefit WTSHTF.I just don’t know how primitive folks will be able to go in ours’ or even my son’s lifetime,not that I’m not going to try.I think we’ll have to embrace both sides of things to an extent if we’re gonna make it.
But back to my original thought,more or less,maybe the majority of survivalists aren’t right wing freak outs, I have a feeling (and experience going to school with a large number of them) that some of them are actually military people who already are trained in survival.The flip-side of that is that I don’t know any military people who don’t love civilization,after all they are fighting for it. As for the nut jobs, well, we all know how the media is, they always focus on the most outrageous and sensationalists aspects of any culture or situation,and they just gotta perpetuate the freak show to keep in business. I think the ‘average’ survivalist,again from my experience, loves coming back to comfy,safe,watered-down CIV.

#9

Kind of interesting, here is a thread from a US army ranger message board about survival without electricity.

Almost all the posters who think they know how to survive if the “shtf” are saying they will have no problem because of their gasoline generators and lots of guns.

http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=28427&postdays=0&postorder=asc

Its also interesting to see the user titles of their forum. You are either a ranger or if female, you are identified by your association to a male (ranger’s wife).

#10

um, I like my warm comfy house and bed. a lot. that part of civ feels very hard to give up. although I guess fur and shared body heat help. . . :wink:

i think it will take time, i don’t know how much, (years?) to re-educate my body to adapt to a wider temperature range. from a chinese medicine perspective, indoor climate control has made our triple burners weak, our metabolism less flexible and adaptable. also, re-educating my mind and spirit to accept/ignore a certain level of discomfort. i know this, and believe it’s worth doing, but I’m not excited about doing it. am i the only rewilder who feels this way?

we grew up in houses. we expect to feel warm most of the time. we’ll never know what it’s like to have never known any different.

(off topic? sorry!)

#11
Kind of interesting, here is a thread from a US army ranger message board about survival without electricity.

Dude that link is hilarious. I just want to say to them… “What the fuck are you talking about?” Do you even know what “survival” entails? Do you have any fucking idea what that means? Because you can’t survive on guns and ammo and generators. What a bunch of fucking idiots. They will be starving to death sitting on their ammo piles killing each other while us people will invisibly fade into the wilderness.

They keep referring to “those who have done it,” but what they mean is, “those who have survived long enough to get rescued by civilization.” Again, that’s what survival training in the military means; keeping yourself alive just long enough to get saved by civilization.

#12

exactly.and what do you do when you run outta ammo? reinvent the iron age and start making new bullets?
What about when the generators die? They do run off gas don’t they?

#13

[quote=“tsuchi akurei, post:12, topic:382”]exactly.and what do you do when you run outta ammo? reinvent the iron age and start making new bullets?
What about when the generators die? They do run off gas don’t they?[/quote]

Generally, tho’ I suppose some of the more forward thinking might have installed solar panels or learned to make ethanol.

#14

Sorry to double post…

[quote=“yarrow dreamer, post:10, topic:382”]um, I like my warm comfy house and bed. a lot. that part of civ feels very hard to give up. although I guess fur and shared body heat help. . . :wink:

i think it will take time, i don’t know how much, (years?) to re-educate my body to adapt to a wider temperature range. from a chinese medicine perspective, indoor climate control has made our triple burners weak, our metabolism less flexible and adaptable. also, re-educating my mind and spirit to accept/ignore a certain level of discomfort. i know this, and believe it’s worth doing, but I’m not excited about doing it. am i the only rewilder who feels this way?

we grew up in houses. we expect to feel warm most of the time. we’ll never know what it’s like to have never known any different.[/quote]

To a certain extent I have this issue. I’ve incurred heatstroke a few times, so now I’m somewhat susceptible to it. But it seems to be a bigger obstacle for me in and around cities, out in the county it seems much easier to find someplace to chill out and rest before I overheat.

My wife is definitely struggling with excess heat, however (although, again, she’s noticed that it’s much easier to deal with outside of cities). We both have a preference for cold weather.

Now, my father-in-law just can’t seem to deal w/ a house temp less than 70 degrees…

#15

There’s a difference between surviving and thriving. Most primitive skills schools/classes focus on survival, not a way of life. If you’re try to survive, you make a debris shelter. If you want to make a living, you build a wigwam and a nice, fluffy bed. If you want to survive, ammo and generators can help unil you’re rescued; if you want to make a living, you need something that can last. Making a living means more than just surviving: it means thriving.

#16

There are “lifers” in the survivalist community. They’re the ones I aviod listening to. Alpha Rubicon is the top of this list for me.

Most survivalist lifers try to build a life “immune” to disaster, one which will continue on regardless of what happens to the outside world. These are the guys who will sit in their bunker watching George of the Jungle on DVD while their neighbors starve, and they’ll feel smug about it becuase “those fools didn’t prepare.” A lot of them are into sustainability, not because they care about the environment but because they recognize that it’s intertwined with self-sufficiency. I worry about these guys, because they’ll be the ones trying to rebuild civilization after a crash, at the point of a gun. The best case scenario is that they stay in their enclaves until they find they can’t repair a solar panel or grow enough corn for their biodesiel generator, and then come out humbled. Worst case scenario, these guys figure everything out and develop a form of sustaibable suburbanization, which is about the most horrible thing I can imagine. The twentieth century, dragging on, forever. Shudder.

#17

I like this thread. I’ve been a student of survivalism for a number of years. For years the paramilitary approach was the only one really known. I collected quite abit of material from the 80’s and early 90’s and there was very little info on primitive skills in the popular magazines like SOF, SWAT and ASG(Solider of Fortune, Survival Weapons and Tatics, and American Survival Guide). Writer’s like Kurt Saxon, Ragnar Benson and Mel Tappan were all advocating the well defended and stocked retreat in ruaral areas, Of them Saxon was the only one who doubted the infrastructure would ever be rebuild and believed one should be prepared to live in a manner like the early 19th century settlers.

There were however sources for primitive skills at least at the pre-1850 levels in buckskinning magazines like Muzzzle Blasts, Buckskin Report, Backwoodsman and Muzzloader. These were more concerned with the Mountain men and long hunters, but there was also quite abit of good info on NAs. While these magazines were geared more toward the weekend re-enactor there were some hardcore groups like the AMM(American Mountian Men) that believed that the skills of the Mountain Men and Longhunters would be useful if the SHTF. They embraced the skills of both the frontiermen and NAs. Full membership is easier these days than it once was but here is a link to the requirements. http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm/bosloper.html

Blackpowder and flintlock muzzleloaders can be made and maintained long after the assualt rifle crowd have long since ran out of ammo. I admit a crowd like the AMM doesn’t fit into the GA’s idea of egalitatian tribalism, but they appeal to me since I’m a crusty old fart that’s too long in the tooth to want to change my belief in indivualism and free trade/barter. I figure it’ll take several generations after collapse before a true H/G culture emerges that is free from distractions. Until then I imagine there will be some interactions between the forming tribes and individualists who prefer a more solitary path. Perhaps serving some useful functions as a longhunter and advance scout in exchange for winter shelter or a romp with an available female. ;D Who can predict what the future really has in store?

Anyway primitive skills really got it start from Larry Dean Olsen in his 1967 books “Outdoors Survival Skills”. He influenced others like Rick Jamesion, Dave Wescot, Tom Brown and the MacPhersons. They drew in people from the buckskinning and hippie retreater crowd as well as military survival istructors and some of the old school paramiltary bunkerheads. Festivals like Winter Count, Rabbitstick, Echos in Time, Falling Leaves and a host of others draw folks from all walks of life who are intrested in learning ancestoral skills.

Well I hope I did this right, I’m still in the research phase on this subject and I’m learning alot about trends within survivalism.

#18

Larry founded rabbitstick( I think that he does not attend anymore tho)
On the army board I noticed that they all had a “You stupid bitch i already done and gone thought of this.” attitude, which seems to be the proverbial antichrist of rewliding( Learn and teach).

#19

Larry was there this year and last. At least for a little while.

#20

My 2 cents…

I live in survivalist central. I’m an hour away from the base of MOM (militia of Montana) who no longer functions. I’ve known many of these folks as well as bush hippies who share similar ideals oddly enough. In fact one of my bushhippie friends is now a federal fugitive for skinny dipping in a Nat’l park. I have seen him in meetings trying to organize common law courts in Idaho with the redneckiest folks you could ever hope to meet. He in his dreads would start speaking in his usual hushed tone and people would edge in to hear what he was saying, so eloquent were and are still his words.

I saw the Spokane newspaper label him as a racist and a Jew hater, which I can verify first hand that he is not, myself being a Jew and welcomed in his home. If there was ever a man I would follow till the end it would be this man. His name is Hari Heath and you can look up some of his writings from links from my site under the “unrelated links” section. You can also find his more current writings in the “Idaho Observer”, a great paper for anybody who likes to color outside the lines.

Now in MT we have groups armed to the teeth who lay much lower, having learned the lessons of sticking ones penis into public view, and are stockpiling whatever as we speak. The good news is that they will be very weighed down and not too prone to moving about with good speed, or able to react as quickly as a lighter group would. They are also stuck in the fossil fuel rut. We also have organizations like CUT which have bunkers buried underground large enough to turn semi’s around in. Then there is always church groups who have no problem with such philosophies as “it is better that one man shall perish than a whole nation dwindle in unbelief” (from the book of Mormon), para-para militaries, a nice selection of some of the more premier bush hippies, and other miscellaneous cults.

So, I guess I’m not all that comfortable trying to label these folks. What I do find valuable is understanding their mindsets and strategies. What I said about those who are stockpiling remains true for the majority of groups I bring up. Slow, rigid, and poorly conditioned for extended wilderness stays both physically and mentally. They do have the advantage of numbers and initial abilities to mobilize large amounts of equipment. For me the strategy is to wait them out, and then use them for all they are worth once they get hammered by mama nature, and those that would come with me, utilize their numbers to find those who wish to surthrive.