Rewilding our relationship with drugs

Regenerative Culture Health, Healing & Movement
#1

I’m wondering what peoples thoughts are on the use of drugs relating to rewilding. I don’t really have a specific opinion myself, but i think it’s clear that civilization has a very different relationship with drugs comparatively to most native cultures. how can we rewild our relationships with certain substances or should we at all?

I also realize that the word “drug” is a term that encompasses everything from pain killers to hallucinogens. So to narrow it down, I was wondering what your views are on hallucinogens and other more organic “recreational” drugs?

This is a really broad subject with lot’s to talk about. What are your thoughts?

#2

Well when Americans think of marijuana, they think of a drug. But in reality, it is a completely natural plant, and it just so happens that when burned and inhaled, it makes you feel good. I am very “liberal” about natural
“drugs” like pot and shrooms. Other than that, I don’t touch or intend to touch things that are man-made. One could consider alchohol a drug as well. It is also man-made and I don’t touch it either (even though there is a form of natural fermentation). Tobacco I do touch though. I live in Alabama and can buy tobacco right from the fields. Native Americans were known to have smoked tobacco, so why not I?

I just know that when my rewilding is complete, if ever, I will continue to smoke cigarettes and maybe smoke a joint every now and again. :wink:

#3

yeah, a big difference between how native americans used tobacco (from what i understand) and current civilized americans is not only how much they used it but also the relationship they had (and still do have) with the actual plant itself as a something used ceremonially, not just for the nicotine fix.

as for marijuana, i definitely think it’s wayyy too demonized in much of civ culture. i really don’t see the problem with smoking every now and then. but if you use marijuana as a way to avoid problems it can lead to inaction and can perpetuate certain issues rather than having a positive effect on your life. i guess it really comes down to why and how your using it.

when it comes to shrooms and other hallucinogens i’m not sure though. Is it bad to dive into that plants world without having the proper “gear” and know-how? i know for instance that there are certain ancient taboos in many cultures that define when, how and where certain plants can be used. we civilized folks don’t have those taboos and i can’t help but think that those taboos probably serve a very important purpose. is it disrespectful to the plants to use them as simple “recreational” weekend party drugs and ignore the important taboos and rules they come with? on the other hand, who’s to define how they should be used?

#4

[quote=“thunder thighs, post:3, topic:1095”]yeah, a big difference between how native americans used tobacco (from what i understand) and current civilized americans is not only how much they used it but also the relationship they had (and still do have) with the actual plant itself as a something used ceremonially, not just for the nicotine fix.

as for marijuana, i definitely think it’s wayyy too demonized in much of civ culture. i really don’t see the problem with smoking every now and then. but if you use marijuana as a way to avoid problems it can lead to inaction and can perpetuate certain issues rather than having a positive effect on your life. i guess it really comes down to why and how your using it.

when it comes to shrooms and other hallucinogens i’m not sure though. Is it bad to dive into that plants world without having the proper “gear” and know-how? i know for instance that there are certain ancient taboos in many cultures that define when, how and when certain plants can be used. we civilized folks don’t have those taboos and i can’t help but think that those taboos probably serve a very important purpose. is it disrespectful to the plants to use them as simple “recreational” weekend party drugs and ignore the important taboos and rules they come with? on the other hand, who’s to define how they should be used?[/quote]

i just read my last post and thought of something: maybe in rewilding how we relate to certain drugs, we need to scratch the whole vague idea of what constitutes a “drug”. all plants are drugs in the sense that they have an effect on you to some degree or another. you could expand that and say that all things are drugs too because everything has some effect on your being as well. it’s just that some things have more of an effect than others.

maybe i’m just over thinking this… ::slight_smile:

#5

[quote=“thunder thighs, post:4, topic:1095”]i just read my last post and thought of something: maybe in rewilding how we relate to certain drugs, we need to scratch the whole vague idea of what constitutes a “drug”. all plants are drugs in the sense that they have an effect on you to some degree or another. you could expand that and say that all things are drugs too because everything has some effect on your being as well. it’s just that some things have more of an effect than others.

maybe i’m just over thinking this… ::)[/quote]

Perhaps we can just say it’s all “medicine”.

#6

[quote=“incendiary_dan, post:5, topic:1095”][quote author=thunder thighs link=topic=1158.msg12448#msg12448 date=1222049990]
i just read my last post and thought of something: maybe in rewilding how we relate to certain drugs, we need to scratch the whole vague idea of what constitutes a “drug”. all plants are drugs in the sense that they have an effect on you to some degree or another. you could expand that and say that all things are drugs too because everything has some effect on your being as well. it’s just that some things have more of an effect than others.

maybe i’m just over thinking this… ::slight_smile:
[/quote]

Perhaps we can just say it’s all “medicine”.[/quote]

yeah. i like that.

#7

My freind-family group likes to distinguish plants, music, and other activities and experiences that are “majical” or “have majic”. These diverse things, we feel, take the human who experiences it to other realms and or connect one deeply with Spirit and Place. Included are certain music, a good hug, a wonderously beautiful scene in a forest, several plants and fungi, and fasting. As for majic plants specifically, ai’d say ai have a pretty good relation with tobacco (which ai didnt until recently, when ai met some wild tobacco), datura (wild spirit; verrry carefull with limited ingestion), ganga (a recreational AND a seeking-vision aid, imo; used once a moon average), and salvia divinorum.
So, yea. Definitly part of mai rewilding.

#8

[quote=“thunder thighs, post:6, topic:1095”][quote author=incendiary_dan link=topic=1158.msg12449#msg12449 date=1222050624]

Perhaps we can just say it’s all “medicine”.
[/quote]

yeah. i like that.[/quote]

If anyone wants to read up on that idea (the food-as-medicine/medicine-as-food concept) , I recommend “Wild Health” by Cindy Engel as a starting point.

#9

“Perhaps we can just say it’s all “medicine”.”

So what does that mean? What is “medicine”? How do you use medicine? Do you use medicine the way people smoke pot? Do you get up in the morning and use medicine before you start your day? Do you use medicine whenever you’re having a good experience in order to “enhance” that experience? Is it necessary for you to use medicine in order for you to feel like you are having a good time? Do you carry medicine around with you all the time and basically pull it out and use it whenever you feel like it? Do you buy medicine from some guy who grows it in a basement of a house, who also deals coke and meth?

I think this rewilding our relationship with drugs involves a lot more than just “calling it medicine” I’ve seen lots of folks who really don’t do much different than anybody else except they call pot “sacred herb” and adopt a kind of phony Rasta schtik about it or they refer to the shroom party they had as a “ceremony” and they think it’s all good.

#10

Occasionally I’ll smoke marijuana with friends as a recreational activity. Certainly there is something magical about that plant, and I have enjoyed what times I have had with it. But I do not have a relationship with that plant. I have not grown it, and I don’t think “wild” cannabis is common or nearly as potent as the thousand and one cultivars. Not to play puritan, but I cannot help but notice the irony of trying to rewild with the use of a plant that has been cultivated and domesticated unlike any other plant.

Generally, I have smoked with close friends of mine and this, I think, has brought us closer together – Sitting in a circle, passing around a pipe. We never smoked under the pretension of ceremony, but just as something to do. Since we have all gone our own ways, we have decided to gather together at least once a year to spend quality time together, probably with the inclusion of marijuana. I hope marijuana won’t become the center of these gatherings, but I imagine they will take a place of prominence. I only hope that it will serve to strengthen our relationships and not just serve as a distraction from the void and emptiness that may grow between us.

The last time I smoked it was with a relative and his friends (all strangers to me) and in spite of the effects, I did not feel good with those people. I felt trapped by their unfamiliarity, with the music they wanted to listen to, with the subjects they wanted to talk about, and everything about the situation. In many ways this was like looking at a mirror image of my experiences with marijuana – looking in as an outsider to a group engaging in similar activity. I felt repulsed by what I saw, and it has given me a number of things to contemplate.

My relative lives in a microcosm where many use psychoactives almost on a daily basis – marijuana, LSD, mushrooms. He and his friends have convinced themselves they’ve stumbled about something grand, something spiritual. They talk about God, about mystical experience, about the “warrior’s path,” about death, about their “chi.”

But what I see when I hear them talk is privileged white males, who have lived under a cultural mythology that has taught them they are god (the depiction of Christ as white stands as the illustration of this for me) and the use of these psychoactives has only brought those cultural stories to bear. Though it is one of their favorite subjects, I doubt any them know anything about being a warrior or death – having probably never directly killed another in their lives. I can’t imagine they know anything about chi or buddha-nature, given that they have no familiarity with the land and cultures in which those things have meaning.

I am also greatly troubled by their talk of the use of psychoactives by shamans. I know very little about this subject, and I do not doubt that in some societies shamans have used psychoactives. But this strikes me as dangerous cultural appropriation and homogenization (saying all “shamans” used psychoactives) that does not do honor to those peoples that have existed or still exist. I also think they completely fail to understand the difficult responsibility of the shaman. These folks seem like cultural pirates sailing from land to land stealing bits of things they like without taking on the responsibility for these things.

I have drawn no conclusions about the relationship of psychoactives to rewilding, but without a culture that places the use of psychoactives in a particular setting and with particular purpose, I remain skeptical of their value.

#11

[quote=“heyvictor, post:9, topic:1095”]“Perhaps we can just say it’s all “medicine”.”

So what does that mean? What is “medicine”? How do you use medicine? Do you use medicine the way people smoke pot? Do you get up in the morning and use medicine before you start your day? Do you use medicine whenever you’re having a good experience in order to “enhance” that experience? Is it necessary for you to use medicine in order for you to feel like you are having a good time? Do you carry medicine around with you all the time and basically pull it out and use it whenever you feel like it? Do you buy medicine from some guy who grows it in a basement of a house, who also deals coke and meth?

I think this rewilding our relationship with drugs involves a lot more than just “calling it medicine” I’ve seen lots of folks who really don’t do much different than anybody else except they call pot “sacred herb” and adopt a kind of phony Rasta schtik about it or they refer to the shroom party they had as a “ceremony” and they think it’s all good.[/quote]

I wasn’t just referring to what we think of as drugs, but the whole of things that effect our well-being, much in the way many generalized and translated works on Native American religion refer to the spiritual aspects of healing as ‘medicine’, because we don’t have an adequate word in our language (or rather, most people don’t know some of the words we could use, like ‘numinous’). If we start to think of these things all as different ways in which we can modify our health, for better or worse, I think we’ll begin to get a healthier relationship with the physical substances we use.

#12

could you elaborate on that? what does it involve for you?

#13

From your original post, I understood you to be talking about drugs like marijuana, psychedelics, mood/mind altering substances, alcohol and possibly tobacco.
So that’s what I’m thinking of.

Some of these drugs are escape hatches but not an escape to mostly an escape from. So what they do for us is more likely to keep us where we are, just a bit more numb.

I think psychedelics in particular but sometimes other drugs can give us a glimpse of a possibility. Some of us spend years chasing that glimpse through continued use of the drugs.

I try to be present. I try to do things with intent. Personally, for me it would be stretching it a bit to call some of these things “medicine”. For others, if we are to have a relationship with them as medicine, then we have to really participate in the relationship in that way. The idea of “using” has to go and a relationship has to be entered into. A relationship involves commitment and responsibility and reciprocity.

If you approach medicine with respect and present yourself in service to the medicine; If you are clear about what you are asking the medicine to do; If you commit yourself to follow through with the work that the medicine calls you to do; the world can open up for you. Amazing things can happen.

This applies to all medicine, including the kind that Dan is referring to and even the pharmaceutical kind. Could be peyote, or tobacco, or a song, or an experience, or a place, or a tree or an animal or a food, or a plant, or a ceremony or possibly even a prescription drug.

#14

[quote=“heyvictor, post:13, topic:1095”]From your original post, I understood you to be talking about drugs like marijuana, psychedelics, mood/mind altering substances, alcohol and possibly tobacco.
So that’s what I’m thinking of.

Some of these drugs are escape hatches but not an escape to mostly an escape from. So what they do for us is more likely to keep us where we are, just a bit more numb.

I think psychedelics in particular but sometimes other drugs can give us a glimpse of a possibility. Some of us spend years chasing that glimpse through continued use of the drugs.

I try to be present. I try to do things with intent. Personally, for me it would be stretching it a bit to call some of these things “medicine”. For others, if we are to have a relationship with them as medicine, then we have to really participate in the relationship in that way. The idea of “using” has to go and a relationship has to be entered into. A relationship involves commitment and responsibility and reciprocity.

If you approach medicine with respect and present yourself in service to the medicine; If you are clear about what you are asking the medicine to do; If you commit yourself to follow through with the work that the medicine calls you to do; the world can open up for you. Amazing things can happen.

This applies to all medicine, including the kind that Dan is referring to and even the pharmaceutical kind. Could be peyote, or tobacco, or a song, or an experience, or a place, or a tree or an animal or a food, or a plant, or a ceremony or possibly even a prescription drug.[/quote]

Thanks, heyvictor. that really cleared some questions up for me.

This is something that’s tricky for me to explain but I’ll give it a shot and try to restate my original question:

Recently, I’ve been put in situations where I had the option to use psycho actives but declined because I wasn’t sure how to use them, much less why I would want to use them or if I was ready for them. I smoke marijuana every now and then, so I began to question myself about that too. if i’m going to question eating shrooms or doing acid, why don’t I question smoking weed? why would I use these things, and is the basis for my use, the reason why i smoke weed for example, a healthy reason? and is there a healthy reason why anyone would enter into a relationship with a substances at all, especially without knowing exactly what they’re trying to get out of that experience? if i’m not sure what i want out of an experience, other than just to experience a cool trip or get high, why would i engage in it? But then how would i know that i’d want to use a specific substance if i don’t know what it has to offer?

but as you said (or from what i gathered), having a relationship with these things is the same as having a relationship with anything else. the usefulness of whatever it is depends on how clear you are on what you are asking it to do and if you commit to doing what it tells you to do.

my question is, how do you know what to ask?

augh. my thoughts are all over the place on this and not very organised.

#15

I’ve recently started smoking tobacco in a pipe. It’s not an everyday thing, but I do find it very relaxing and grounding. I can easily see why so many indigenous folk used it.

#16

Not just tobacco. Goldenrod, mullein, coltsfoot, red osier (wait for fall), etc. Branch out. Tobacco is for the spirits and the walking dead (the colonists were white, wore high collars, worked like crazy people, and brought death…you would have thought they were zombies too).

#17

Do goldenrod or red osier have any special fragrance or changes in mentality, etc. that brought this practice about? Why did they chose these specifically?

#18

Don’t forget the smell! :stuck_out_tongue:

#19

Excellent. I’ve been wondering about what else is suitable other than tobacco & bearberry.

#20

As I understand it people pretty much smoked any plant they wanted to. Some work better than others. The act of smoking itself is relaxing, beyond any particular chemical impact. Probably for similar reasons to why a sauna is relaxing. You can also smoke mints (the menthol is very cold, but mullein burns hot making this a good combination in my experience), you can smoke clover, you can smoke pretty much any plant that is safe to eat or is a successful medicinal.

Mullein and coltsfoot are used as smokables medicinally to clear out the lungs.

As I understand it the question is primarily whether you like the taste or not. You know what these plants taste like eaten, or as teas, or what they smell like. Experiment. As long as you don’t use a plant that has known harmful effects you should be fine.

Note: if you die its totally on your ass.

:smiley: