Rewild vs. Repent

Visions of the Rewilding Renaissance
#1

I know this is maybe a touchy subject with some people. I myself grew up Catholic, which I think damaged me in a lot of ways. When I went to college, religion was the only thing I was ever a part of, so I tried to stick with it, but soon my views changed as my “eyes were open” more to the world around me (I grew up in a very small town, and went to college in the city). I stopped going to church. Even though I didn’t go to church or support the catholic (or christian) religion anymore in my personal life, I still believed that something exists like the force that religion has for people. My family remained stuck in their ways, and most of my family members still go to church, my mom even working for one. My mom was so upset that I stopped going to church that she tried to force me to go when I would return home for the weekends. It got so bad that I told her, “If you try to make me go to church, then I just won’t come home.” This changed her mind a little, and she gave in and did not try to force me to go anymore, but still made it known that she was not happy with my decision. Anyway, I try to stay as far aways from christianity as possible now.

So what I want to discuss here is the thought of Rewilding vs. Repenting. I really want to hear everyone else’s thoughts and develop mine some more, so I am just going to leave this open for y’all… Basically what I think is that the “repenters/religious” are going to hold on as long as they can, but I think more and more people will realize that it’s pointless… and they are going to feel lost! I think religion is just a figment of our imagination, and another way to separate humans from the rest of the animals, and coming back to Ohio I got a reminder of how strong it is here (They just opened a “CREATION” museum not too long ago!!! To give an alternative to the Natural History Museum, which people thought was not good for their children to go to). It reminds me of how it is taught that god created everything else, and then, on the 7th day, he created man, and then rested, because creation was over, there was nothing worth creating after man, the “ultimate” creation (ok so I really didn’t think about it like that until I read Ishmael, but it makes so much sense, and seems even more rediculous!).

So, I would love to hear your thoughts, because I feel like I have lost so much of my life to being catholic, and believing in something that deep down I knew didn’t exist… and I can’t help but feeling angry and aggitated when I am reminded of the strong religious sentiment here where I grew up…

An, I think basically it just comes back to us humans not taking responsibility for the actions we collectivelly take in destroying ourselves and the world around us. We think we can be saved by “god” just like we were saved by our parents when we were young and had no responsibility.

#2

i think this really deserves a response, but i should really emphasize up front that i’m basing my reply entirely on my own experiences and opinions. i’d really hate for anyone to think i’m trying to tell them how to react to the tension that exists between Christianity™ and our contemporary lives (both physical & spiritual).

i suppose a little background is in order…

even tho’ my mom was nominally raised a generic protestant (and, quite possibly, because of that), religion really wasn’t something that i was introduced to until i was a little bit older (say about 7) when I started joining a friend who was being raised in the Methodist tradition. It was absolutely educational, and looking back, i can clearly see that it’s had a number of very powerful and positive impacts on my life. but i didn’t join a church at that time, neither did i consider myself a Christian; i was still trying to understand what the hell it was all supposed to be about (no pun intended).

when i was 9, we moved a couple thousand miles away, to Ohio, where we had a lot more family. during this time, i don’t know, for some reason, mom wanted to start attending a church (to be honest, i don’t really know why; i should probably ask her someday). we started with a church that one of my uncles and my grandma went to (an Assembly of God-type church). it was a little wierd, and subtly, but noticeably different from prior experiences. i still didn’t understand what was going on, but i was having fun with the other kids that were going, so i paid attention to the more forceful opinions/statements, but i didn’t take them very seriously.

eventually, we ended up moving to a Southern Baptist church in town. this one was a bit different yet. people were somewhat more personable and, i don’t know how to say it really. more confident and less fearful in a way, tho’ i’m not sure that really captures it. at any rate, one of the things that really impressed me was that the pastor was very willing to talk to me (a kid) as an equal about my concerns re: his faith and address all the questions i had developed from my previous exposures. (for those of you who are confused that this discription can apply to a So Bap church, keep in mind, it was in the absolute most northern range for that denom ;)) we went there for a couple years before i decided to get baptised (at least, i think i was 11). and i lived as a “good baptist” for the next several years.

during my teen years, i was somewhat obsessed with why things are as they are. i didn’t encounter any of Quinn’s writings during this time (unfortunate, as i would have enjoyed it and it would have cleared up a lot for me that i had to struggle to figure out on my own). and the entire concept of work and of life as struggle really disturbed me. i just didn’t understand why that should be so, even tho’, obviously it was (well, at any rate, those concepts are what everyone else were working under, so…). one of the results of pursuing this was a very critical re-examination of my faith. Christianity™ didn’t come out so very well…

so, i spent the next several years being very angry about organized religion generally, and Christianity™ specifically (tho’, at the time, I hadn’t yet realized that it was possible to have a relationship with Christ that disagreed with his [alleged] followers).

i did a lot of looking around at different religions and spirituality, something to help, but i resolutely refused to accept anything that i couldn’t relate to on the level of personal experience. i looked at Yoruba and Lacumi (African Tribal Religions) and was very impressed with the relevance of personal experience and the experiences of ancestors. interestingly, i had no compunction to try to make these religions my own (i recognized immediately that it would sheer folly). so i started to dig into my own, largely Germanic roots and Asatru. i never joined an Asatru church (my feelings of organized religions haven’t abated over the years), tho in many ways i was very successful at connecting with that religion (and, just for the record, no, Asatru, by and large, does not condone racism). through all of this, i was paying very close attention to my experiences, the impacts, images, words, thought, everything that i encountered. and something that i (eventually) realized is that Christ never really left. today, i pretty healthy relationship there. i disagree with Christianity™, but i’ve learned that what Christ actually taught more often than not reflected what i believed all along.

so today, oddly enough, i have and maintain personal relationships w/ Christ. and the Vanir. and some Aesir. and of course, i’m very fond of Daoism. and i manage to do this because i relate to them each at a personal level.

this has been an unintentionally rambling way of saying that, if you feel a pull towards something; i don’t think you should just deny it. i think you should try to understand it, then transform the relationship to one that’s beneficial.

#3

I grew up Catholic too, and in a small town (population 1,698). Like Emily (really, how are Emily and I not alike; I am still trying to figure that out! :)), I didn’t really start questioning the religion until fairly late, when I was making plans to start college and the light appeared at the end of the tunnel (all of a sudden my life became, “You mean I’ll be getting out of here??!? Well then, get me out of here!!” whereas I hadn’t felt such things before that [or rather, acknowledged that I felt them – big difference]).

What I remember about the other Catholic kids my age in that town is that the boys rebelled/questioned much earlier than the girls, almost across the board. (In fact, I know that many of the girls I went to church with have remained fairly loyal to the religion.) I have a few theories as to why this was so, but I don’t think any of them can fully explain why. My main theory is that the boys were in a position to question earlier because they were given social/media messages and expectations that were more in conflict with Catholic messages regarding sex and identity. Mainstream society says to boys, “Hey man, you have a penis, use it!” and also says “Rebel and stand apart, you rugged individual, you.” (Catholicism says, “wait until marriage, sinner” and “believe this, sinner” and … well … more or less just says “sinner sinner sinner.” ::slight_smile: :stuck_out_tongue: ) Mainstream society says to girls, “What are you without a boyfriend, really? (basically leaving sexual self-knowledge up to the guy)” and also says, “If you are patient, and follow, and don’t make too much noise, you’ll get what you deserve.” These messages, for better or for worse, are easier to reconcile with Catholicism.

Questioning the religion one is raised with often produces painful conflicts, especially within one’s family, so it’s not something that most people really want to have to do in the first place. I think a lot of the Catholic girls (myself included) were able to synthesize the messages from these various sources more easily (because they were in many ways not all that different), so we stalled the questioning, stalled the rebellion, in the interest of keeping family harmony (and I think I can say this for the other girls - I knew them well, went to preschool with some of them, and kindergarten-and-up with all of them). When you’re a kid, especially in a small town, and still dependent on your parents, your more constructive options outside of that stifling social atmosphere are all but invisible. My own early experiences in the forest, and also with books, saved me…

#4

haha Catholic as well, till about 10 years, then my mom married a mormon… so that (well I was still Catholic then, and tied to the “one true church”), I didn’t care about it that way when I was going there, but when I was going some place else I was all ??? what?? Until my parents just stopped going to church, so around high school, I stopped, and stopped believing, became rebellious, attacked Christianity and admired paganism, as I saw it Christianity was a fraud that wreaked havoc against other peoples. Anyhow, since then I met a person who told me about the Kingdom of God, and it made sense to me, and on that note I began believing again, but I wouldn’t call myself a “christian” persay, tho I do rather admire Jesus, not sure about Paul tho… but I don’t know. I see pretty close to Jason on these matters, if you’ve read his stuff on religion.
Anyhow I think one might find fruit in ‘repenting’ for rewilding, as repenting meaning, change ones mind. It might just be me, but I see a lot of parallels.
Oh, and the Catholic church, and pope, is most likely the beast anti-christ of Daniel and Revelations. The pope being John Paul II (I know he’s dead but it says something along the lines of that would happen.)

#5

Repentance depends upon guilt, and guilt can’t grip the wild-heart!

Touchy, because the Yahweh-Cult of Judeo-Christianity is, like all religions, a subconscious sexual impulse.

A latently homosexual impulse, in the case of the Yahweh-Cult, which specializes in stimulating the anal-guilt association.

The latent homosexual is not consciously aware of the homo-eroticism behind religious motives, as they are rooted in very early childhood experiences of guilt.

Unfortunately, as impressionable little children, our first guilt-ridden inner-conflict with our parents is about controlling our anal-functions.

Our parent’s verdict of our guilt stands over us till we die, as a life-long, anal-association with guilt.

Moreover, thanks to these grasping anal-preoccupations, the anal-impulse to control, own and aquire will now motivate our religious, business, and political behavior for the rest of our lives.

Controlling the social behavior of others is an anal-preoccupation, and guilt is an effective tool used by the Yahweh-Cult to express these anal-preoccupations.

Guilt legitimizes and reinforces obedience to Hierarchy.

The greater the number who are discovered guilty, the greater the hierarchical power and status of the few remaining undiscovered.

The Yahweh Cult deliberately inflates the number of potentially guilty by judging each other with strict laws designed to leave everyone a guilty sinner.

Paul, in his letter to the Romans, indicates that the law is not meant to be obeyed, because even the saintly can’t obey the law.

Rather, the purpose of the law is to constantly measure the guilt of our sinful nature.

Thus, we are guilty and unworthy of following our own unique and individual spirit path.

Instead, we submissively surrender the path lit by our own star, and, like a hysterical woman, regress back to the frightened child, and seek the authority and security of a hierarchical father-figure.

Archetypal father-figures controlled by religious, business, and political social-hierarchies possess the means and social authority to punish.

Guilt-ridden, the latent homosexual’s anal-preoccupations trigger homo-erotic, sado-masochistic desires to punish and be punished.

We punish others as a projection of our anal-guilt desire to be punished.

Homo-phobia of the Yahweh-Cult is just such a projection.

Not only does the open-homosexual become a projection for the latent homosexual to indirectly fulfill their own secret punishment desires, but the latent homosexual desperately deludes himself into thinking that, the louder one denounces others, the less chance of being denounced oneself.

School-yard Sissies, to divert attention, are always the first to point-out, for attack, those more openly sissy than themselves.

Thus, the Yahweh-Cult is so homophobic because the greater the latent homosexuality the greater the impulse to punish the open-homosexual.

And why, when you look into the eyes of the most intense homophobes, like Jerry Falwell or James Dobson, you can easily tell that you’re looking straight into the face of the most flaming latent homosexuals.

Sexual Reproduction and Natural Selection is the purpose and means of our natural evolution as animals, and religion psychologically serves both the sexual purpose and the sexual means of evolution.

Religion relieves repressed psycho-sexual energy when in the act of giving one’s self to an intimate union with the conceived universal life-force.

Orgasmic release of repressed psycho-sexual energy is not always subtle, and are only all to obvious in religious rituals such as Pentecostal, or race religions like Fascism.

Moreover, religion’s sexual impulse does NOT begin as a guilt-ridden, anally-preoccupied, latently homosexual impulse, but again, as the universal sexual impulse to abandon one’s self into an orgasmic intimacy with the life-force.

This impulse only becomes perverted into guilt-ridden, patriarchal religions, such as the Yahweh-Cult, only where males, due to coercive aggression, are inadequate, and can no longer measure-up to their male-archetype.

The Hebrew, as a small group of tribes surrounded, conquered and enslaved by powerful and violent kingdoms and empires, is an excellent example of how the inadequate male will impulsively fabricate a patriarchal religion.

The inadequate male must resort to passive-aggressive means to dominate and control his women (reproductive gene-pool) such as fabricating a patriarchal religion.

This inadequate male then gives his neurotic preoccupation the ultimate authority and judgement as the mytho-symbolic, father-figure archetype, Yahweh.

Yet, every man raised in fear-driven, anal-hierarchies is an inadequate, latent homosexual, who will be impulsively drawn towards religions whose neurotic motivations are as effective as the Hebrew’s Yahweh-Cult.

It’s no wonder that the global anal-hierarchy we superficially call civilization fell so readily under the effective spell of the Yahweh-Cult.

#6

someone has an ana l fixation ;-}

#7

I think we will find that there are a lot of people like us! It’s good to know that some of them have found there way here! :slight_smile:

And what was that post by hoodie all about?! hmm…

#8

haha sounds kinda Freudian sexuality idk

#9

Huh, I don’t know about the “anal” part, but limitation of sexual expression is definitely civilized thinking (i.e. there is only “one way” as opposed to there is no “one way”).

#10

Hoodies post is loaded with contentious points and insinuations. Check out how it insinuates that homosexuals, “hysterical women”, and “Hebrews” are undesirable.
While pointing an accusatory finger it blatantly displays the bigotry and prejudice that it supposedly denounces.

If you ask me that post has “sexually repressed” “civilized thinker” written all over it.

#11

idk I got out of it that homosexuality is a want/need of someone to ‘punish’ ones ‘anus’ created by ‘inadequate man’ and guilt from controlling ones anal functions from childhood

#12

I don’t know, heyvictor … I read “hysterical woman” as an appropriation of an outmoded word, as a way of illustrating traditional views of women. I think that women who had/have what was once called “hysteria” were/are really just extremely repressed. And I feel that a lot of the labels that hoodie was using (like “inadequate male”) were not from his/her point of view, but society’s, again for illustrative purposes.

But we’ll have to ask hoodie about that. … Care to clarify??

#13

the southern baptists i grew up among always preached that to repent meant to turn around and go the other way. in those terms, my rewilding serves as a kind of repentance.

i definitely expect that the surviving feral culture of the Ozarks where I live will develop from christianity.

i always feel amazed when i look at the myriad ways one can take the bible (or christian tradition) and use it to uphold a certain way of life – the “one true way” of whoever does the interpreting. because of that flexibility, however, i expect that jesus and jehovah and moses and peter will survive the crash in these hills. they may turn into something more santerian than baptist or chruch of christ, but their names and their power will survive.

#14

“the southern baptists i grew up among always preached that to repent meant to turn around and go the other way. in those terms, my rewilding serves as a kind of repentance.”

Exactly.

#15

give up the spirit

#16

Anal-conservative Christianity, like anal-conservative politics are magnets that attract the most intense latent-homosexuals like Ted Haggard.

These institutions are usually enough to satisfy the subconscious anal desires of society’s most latent-homosexuals.

Unfortunately for Ted Haggard, these institutions were not enough, and he crossed the line from latent to open-homosexuality.

Again, it’s unfortunate for Ted, because the latent-homosexual success of these institutions depends on deception by plausible-deniability.

Remember, what the latent-homosexual fears most is having their subconscious homo-erotic motives exposed.

The Anal-Personality is written across every civilized-face.

There’s NO escape!

Everyone raised in hierarchical civilization will be forever anally-fixated by the age of five.

But it gets worse!!! I haven’t even touched upon breast-fixation, which is by far a more powerful and deeply-rooted motivation within hierarchical civilization.

That’s another thread.

It’s about how the repentance of guilty-sins is connected to the anal-guilt association of hierarchical-civilization’s latent-homosexuality.

Only if you’re an open-homosexual.

Patriarchal religion, however, expresses the latent-homosexual’s anal-preoccupations.

This means hetero-sexuals with repressed latent-homosexual tendencies (due to their subconscious anal-preoccupations).

In other words, civilized man.

Evolution is based on Sexual Reproduction through Natural Selection.

Hundreds of millions of years of Evolution has made sex our most powerful inherent (subconscious) motivation.

Ego’s Evolutionary task is to mobilize our psycho-energy towards effectively achieving Sexual Reproduction.

Unfortunately for the Male Ego, Woman makes the selection in Natural Selection.

Unfortunate because, when chronic fear chronically grips the anal-sphincter, generating, not only a subconscious fear-anal association, but in time both neurotic fear and neurotic anal preoccupations, then that male is NO longer sexually attractive to Woman.

Male Ego must then compensate for this neurotic, fear-driven, inadequacy through the psychological means of deception.

Remember, in Primate sexual hierarchies, like our hierarchical civilization, deception is the most effective tool for sex and survival.

To achieve deception the Male Ego must repress his neurotic anal-preoccupations and his neurotic fears from the conscious mind of, not only the group, but also, to be convincing, from his own conscious mind as well.

Unfortunately for the inadequate-male, our psyche (thoughts, emotions, dreams [both conscious and subconscious] ), like everything else in the universe, is a form of energy (psycho-energy), and thus follows all the thermo-dynamic laws of energy-physics.

Which means that, when we repress psycho-sexual energy from one direction, we are forced to compensate by releasing it in another direction.

So Male Egos must release their sexually unattractive, latent homosexual, energy indirectly and deceptively, through symbolically bending over and spreading their legs for the symbolic cock of hierarchical authority.

The hierarchy of religion, business, and politics is subconscious, symbolic sodomy.

The religion, business, and politics of hierarchical civilization is nothing more than deceptive drapery, woven into the mass psychosis of our collective delusions and denials that we comically call the everyday reality of normality.

[quote=“heyvictor, post:10, topic:521”]Hoodies post is loaded with contentious points and insinuations. Check out how it insinuates that homosexuals, “hysterical women”, and “Hebrews” are undesirable.
While pointing an accusatory finger it blatantly displays the bigotry and prejudice that it supposedly denounces.[/quote]

Latent-homosexual motivations, because they conflict with the latent-homosexual’s, usually more powerful, hetero-sexual motives, become psycho-pathological.

For example, the latent-homosexual, desperate to deny any homo-erotic motives that will undermine his hetero-sexual motives, will usually compensate with pathetically desperate macho-posturing.

Which is why the anally-preoccupied, civilized, latent-homosexual is the most dangerous man on Earth.

Moreover, all inner-conflicts, when they turn into neurotic preoccupations, are said to be psycho-pathological.

The Hebrew is simply an example of how being small, in an aggressive world, triggers passive-aggressive responses such as patriarchal religion.

This is no fault of the Hebrews, and you can be sure that the aggression of their larger neighbors was triggered by having once been the victims of larger aggressors themselves.

Such is the domino-effect of civilization.

Hysteria is not only triggered by sexual repression, but is also triggered by the repression of traumatic fear.

Moreover, men suffer fear-driven hysteria as well.

Yet it is hysteria’s association with Woman, and traumatic fear that cause men to see themselves as inadequate when measured against the subconscious, symbolic power of the fearless male archetype.

“Hysterical Woman”, thus becomes an accurate pejorative describing civilized man’s own effeminate feelings of inadequacy.

The unwanted message is always blamed on the messenger.

Yet, the writings of every civilized person can reveal their repressed psycho-sexual energy.

#17

dreams of stars-

  1. i’m not sure on the author - i want to say vinde deloria and perhaps someone can verify/correct me - but i remember reading that the most destructive idea introduced to the indigenous people of the western hemisphere was the concept of “sin”.

  2. and if you havent read it yet, beyond geography by fredrick turner is of interest.
    i myself came to anti-civ perspective partially through catholics (tolstoy, hennessey)

hoodie -

how do you account for homosexuality among hunter-gatherers?

#18

[quote=“primal parent, post:17, topic:521”]hoodie -

how do you account for homosexuality among hunter-gatherers?[/quote]

Man is half-woman, so, for any variety of random pre-natal, and early childhood factors, there will always be open-homosexuals.

Even amongst hunter-gatherers.

Moreover, the evidence suggests, that for most of our history as hunter-gatherers, we were secure, whole, and balanced enough that open-homosexuals were not threatening.

Far from it, the indigenous hunter-gathers of the New World, were noble enough to believe that even from childhood we are all here to discover and fulfill the unique meaning of own individual existence.

To fulfill the communal-potential of this wholistic, non-possessive, cooperative, and egalitarian society, the open-homosexual must have faith in his own subjective truth, and have faith to follow his own star.

But that’s not always true with hunter-gatherers.

Remember, we were hunter-gatherers when this current fear-driven imbalance in our psyche began.

Hunting and gathering can’t make wild and true hearts out of people like us; not in our current state of mental imbalance.

#19

Yah. ancient northern Europeans would drive you into a bog with pickets for being what we happily now call gay. Later they would burn you at the stake, hence the term “faggot” from bundle of sticks which were used for the fire…