Advice please! I’m using a thick layer of mulch and a ground cover of white clover to fix nitrogen, but the leaves of the wisteria and native honeysuckle are still turning yellow. What can I do?
I’ve never gardened before, so I’m just kind of blundering along trying things and seeing what works. I still feel amazed when seeds that I’ve planted actually sprout :D.
I’m not very familiar w/ wisteria, but I was under the impression that it fixed it’s own nitrogen…?
Your mileage may vary with the following…
Check the plants very carefully for insects or discoloring (other than the yellowing leaves) you may be dealing with aphids, scale or some such.
Again, not sure about wisteria, but many plants have their leaves yellow in very salty conditions.
If you’re positive that you’re dealing w/ a nitrogen issue, you can try “watering” the plants with urine, or trimming the white clover a bit (trimming the clover tops will cause some of the roots to die, releasing some of the nitrogen that has been fixed).
Good luck!
I’ll check for insects. What do aphids look like? Would spraying the plants with soapy water help? The plants are still putting out new leaves, I don’t know if that means anything. Coral honeysuckle is supposed to be salt and drought tolerant, but I don’t know about wisteria.
Update: I’ve done a bit more research and discovered that it looks a lot like molybdenum deficiency.
I’ll probably just break down and buy a fertilizer for now, but any ideas on how to fix that permaculturally? Perhaps a plant with a long taproot to bring up nutrients?
hmm, that’s pretty interesting.
again, i’m not all that familiar w/ wisteria (or honeysuckle), so take the following for what it is: speculation.
i find it odd that the clover is growing so well, while the wisteria & honeysuckle are growing poorly (spec: yellowing leaves).
the molybdenum aspect throws an extra kink in the works, as it’s vital to nitrogen fixation. so i find myself wondering how the clover finds enough MO to fix nitro, but the wisteria can’t. then i find out that MO absorbtion by plants is impacted by soil pH. i also note that white clover is usually somewhat more tolerant of lower pH than wisteria.
so i’m kind of wondering if the soil pH is low. have you checked it?
as far as how to “mine” MO permaculturally, i think wood ashe sometimes has trace amounts, so maybe w/ wood ash amendments…? not sure, that’s a good question.
This morning I talked to the lady at the nursery where I bought the plants. She told me that new plants need extra water until they’ve established themselves. So I didn’t get the fertilizer. I’m going to try watering more often and see if it helps.
I don’t really understand why they need so much water. These plants are supposed to be drought tolerant, and I’ve been watering them every day.
what sort of mulch did you use and how recently did you put it down? adding a lot of carbon to the soil can make it nitrogen deficient for a while until the organisms have had a chance to balance out (they are taking up the available N to digest all that C), but if you just put a layer of mulch on top of the soil that effect should not be too pronouced. I don’t know how, or if, that would affect N-fixing plants like Wisteria.
As far as the drought tolerance goes and getting new plants established, deep waterings every few days would be better than every day shallow waterings. For a lot of plants drought tolerance is related to having a root system that reaches really deep, but in order to get that root system they need to be watered deeply while getting established. when you first plant a plant the roots have only the volume of the pot they were in to draw water from and since roots can’t grow into dry soil, if you only water a little bit each day the zone of wetness may not penetrate deeply into the soil and roots will only grow into that shallow zone, so when the regular watering stops they have trouble.
While you think of all the possibilities, consider if it might be the amount of sun, rootspace or too much water. Did you properly loosen the roots before planting?
I guess I don’t have much chance of finding aphids, then. This place is ant central. ;D
I’ve got the locations scouted out pretty well as far as what needs sun and what needs shade,so I don’t think that’s a factor. I didn’t know I was supposed to do anything to the roots. A couple of years ago I tried to separate some bulbs before I planted them and they all died, so now I just leave the roots alone.
I laid the mulch right on top of the soil. It’s not tilled in or anything. About how long do I have to stand there with the hose to get a good, deep soaking? The part of the yard with the wisteria has a sprinkler that stays on for 45 minutes. How many weeks does it take to establish a good root system?
not sure what you mean by that, unless you are joking ;D
aphids and ants go together like bacon and eggs. aphids extract sugars from plants and exude them in concentrated form via thier anuses. the ants mine the concentrated sugar feces and protect the aphids from predators. If you have aphids and are looking to get rid of them you need to bring in some parasitic wasps. The wasps lay thier eggs into the bodies of the aphids and the larvae eat them from the inside out.
…
You can’t stand there long enough with the hose. you need to set it on trickle and leave it overnight.
ah, yes. Pig belly and undeveloped bird- what could be more natural?
But seriously, if you have any chalk in your area try adding some dust to the top layer of your soil.
Or make your own fertiliser, with some comfrey, nettles (do u get them in North Armorica?), any wild greens really. Just stuff as many leaves as possible in a bottle and fill up with water. Leave for a week or three, then use.
Or try adding soil from a few different locales, as molybdenum is usually present. There are also small quantities in urine.
Remember! Never let a girl piss on your compost. The high levels of oestrogen act as a preservative.
You were supposed to do something with the roots, lol. 1. Loosten soil one or more inches arround edges of dug hole. 2. Take out of pot, gently. 3. GENTLY pull roots apart at bottom and optionally the sides. Some breakage is OK. This allows primarily for the roots to spread downwards, to tap underground water long after rains or watering and secondarily outwards to tap the maximum amount of water, quickly.
Also, ai would recommend at this point to discontinue watering altogether or reduce to once every two weeks. Native plants only need suplemental irrigation max two weeks after planting in a good location and supposing there are no problems with knotted up roots or pests (aphids are pretty easy to spot - a quite small insect just sitting on the plant. Mine are usually green. Some are orange. Usually there are many together and they dont react very much to prodding by finger, etc.; these guys hardly move.).
can you give a source for that info, I’ve never heard that female urine should not be used.
mostly agree, where there’s aphids, you’ll often find ants, but the reverse is often not true. i have a large number of ants (of different types, i think the big black ones taste best, but i got to sample some down in KY a couple weeks ago that were mid-sized and half black half red, super tasty, but i digress…), but i don’t have any aphids.
yeah, NA has both comfrey & nettles, tho’ often dandelion is more readily available (and works well this way, it’s got a decent amount of phos and other trace nutrients, dunno about MO, tho’).
starfish, where are you located? and are the leaves yellow and dry or yellow and limp? (or just yellow?). at first i was thinking it was a chlorosis issue, but now… i guess i’m just not sure. wish i could be there, y’know?
not sure what you mean by that, unless you are joking Grin
Sunflowers FTW posted that if I had a lot of aphids, I should encourage ants, but it disappeared somehow.
I live here.
The honeysuckle seems to have gotten better with the extra watering. I’m not sure about the wisteria. Some leaves just look yellow, some look dry and crispy but not yellow. Once I’m sure they’re going to make it, I’ll start watering less.
ok, one thing about sandy soil is that when you water, you usually want to do so more frequently with less water, as it drains quickly.
[quote=“Wanderer, post:13, topic:902”][quote author=Yarrow link=topic=955.msg10540#msg10540 date=1212319553]
Remember! Never let a girl piss on your compost. The high levels of oestrogen act as a preservative.
[/quote]
can you give a source for that info, I’ve never heard that female urine should not be used.[/quote]
Online? I’m looking. But I’m pretty sure it was Pat Whitefield of the Permaculture Org. that told me.