Martial Arts

Regenerative Culture Health, Healing & Movement
#1

i was just wondering who practiced, what styles, and what their general thoughts are on martial arts and rewilding.

I’ve been into Wing Chun Kung Fu and Jeet Kun Do for about 15 years. My tribemate has his black in Tung Su Do and Tae Kwon Do.

Seems like a no-brainer to me but,

Martial Arts provides a couple of things that rewilders can use. First off it gives one confidence in their bodies’ ablity to handle extended, or tough physical tasks. It also gives the confidence to take physical risks. Generally it gives the confidence that one can “handle themselves” physically. This part I cannot stress enough. I have found that I am able to talk my way out situtations by purposefully projecting a “no fear of injury” attitude.

Another thing I have found is that it has expanded my perceptual limits over the years. I find that when i really get in to practice mode, practicing 5 times a week, I find that I process information faster, and take in much much more than when I practice once a week or less.

It has also provided me with meditation techniques, and taught me to still myself and my mind. THis too went far in opening my perceptual filters.

It also gives me a general sense of wellbeing. I smoke cigarettes like crazy, but after a good session, i don’t smoke for a couple of hours.

It provides greater balance, agility, and manual dexterity.

In short, I think that Martial Arts training and practice is good for the mind body and soul.

R

#2

I did a short stint a long while back of, um, let’s see, what was it… hmm, don’t remember, some Japanese “hard” style. 'Bout 50/50 punches/kicks with a few locks tossed in. The only things I remember are the bare bones basics. Mostly what I know about fighting would get me kicked out of a dojo if I used it in one!

What can I say…? I was in a lot of fights as a kid… :slight_smile:

I probably should try to get back into it, but at this point, I can pull the ‘he’s a crazy, leave him alone’ if I need to and I can hold my own against most guys (as long as I don’t have to worry about their friends!) if that doesn’t deter them. Not that I need to, I don’t think I’ve been in a fight in well over 10 years. Granted, the fact that I know I can manage probably has a lot to do with that.

Sometimes it amazes me just how much physical violence is actually mental/psychological.

#3

No question - martial arts bring a lot of important stuff to rewilding that you can’t get in many other ways. I do several: I-chuan, and kali stick-fighting (lots of stick in the woods! and on the street!). Sometimes kali, a filipino art, feels a hell-of-a-lot like tai chi with sticks. weird.

I also highly recommend dance, parkour, and any kind of free creative movement.

I can’t say that I really recommend rigid classical martial-arts, but to each their own.

My friends and I bundle all of our arts into a movement practice we call SHIFT, which we get together for on Saturdays at a local park.

#4

Stick fighting seems like a very good investment, Willem. You are absolutely right, there are plenty of sticks for the taking.

I really get what you mean about the “rigid” classical styles, like akido or tae kwon do. I have always prefered the chinese styles for their fluidity and grace. I don’t know if you are familiar with Jeet Kun Do( Bruce Lee’s style), but he desgined it as a response to the the classical “rigid” styles that were becoming very popular at that time. If you haven’t read or seen his book, check it out. It is a very open, very individualistic style, and not confined to practicing forms over and over.

I have been intersted in SHIFT ever since you first mentioned it. I am hoping to be in Portland one sat to check it out. sounds like alot of fun.

R

P.S. you look just like Freddy Mercury in your pic

#5
P.S. you look just like Freddy Mercury in your pic

Wow! I’d say, Rory. Initially I was thinking it looked like Doc Holiday (Val Kilmer’s character) on the movie Tombstone. But I’d say FM is much more accurate.

Anyway, Willem I’d like to know how SHIFT works. I want to start some kind of learning space in my community, so I’m interested. Is it run kind of like an Open Space gathering? If there is a good description of it on your blog just send me there. Or perhaps we can start another thread where I can ask some questions?

Thank you,

Curt

#6

Willem,

Forget my last post. I went to the link you provided and I think I understand what SHIFT is about. I imagine everybody just meets up and you let things unfold, kind of like an Open Space gathering. It looks really interesting.

Take care,

Curt

#7

Well, SHIFT has gone through a few phases. In some we made it like an Open Space free-for-all, in others a more instructor-driven experience, in others more like a dance-off. Right now it looks like me drilling participants in what I consider basic movement skills. In some way, it does work like an Open Space every time, because I/we base it on what the people who show up want to do and learn. Thus, it looks a bit like a martial-arts club right now. That could change at any time.

Funny, Rory, how you mention aikido in reference to ‘rigid’ martial-arts…though the art as a whole does display some classicalness (especially for beginners!!!), basic aikido body skills (not technique, but ability to center, relax, connect with an opponent, and the idea of transcending the idea of ‘opponents’) have operated so centrally in what I do I almost feel like I really practice aikido, even though I haven’t studied it in years and don’t remember any of the techniques. Ha! You can ask Chuck for some feedback on this – some of the aikido centering exercises had a big impact on his balance and so on. Also Towhee, a member here, attends and he may have some insight about his experiences.

[EDIT: Also, yes, Jeet Kune Do effing rocks. I have a really good friend who grew up practically in Dan Inosanto’s lap, and he has loads and loads of great stories and martial arts insights. I can’t believe how much genius Bruce Lee possessed, for more than his movie career would imply]

[EDIT #2: Freddie Mercury? I usually get Johnny Depp, believe it or not. I did pick Freddie Mercury’s pic from the avatar list. Thus the resemblence of Freddie Mercury to…himself. :wink: ]

#8
Freddie Mercury? I usually get Johnny Depp, believe it or not. I did pick Freddie Mercury's pic from the avatar list. Thus the resemblence of Freddie Mercury to..himself.

Lmao.

I picked Akido b/c of the high level of formulaic movements, etc. I probably should have stuck with a style I more knowledgable about, like Tae Kwon Do. I’l have to ask them. I have always been curious about the resemblance to some of the Wing Chun forms and defense.

#9
Sometimes kali, a filipino art, feels a hell-of-a-lot like tai chi with sticks. weird.

I’d like to learn about kali. Do you have any book recommendations, Willem?

Take care,

Curt

#10

Curt-

The best book on Kali remains out of print and expensive. But I can’t imagine that you don’t have a kali school nearby. You could go check out a class. Also a good websearch could turn up reams of interesting reading material on web sites. Do a search on kali or escrima or filipino stick fighting. I’ve found tons of interesting stuff on the web, myself.

yrs,
W

I’d like to learn about kali. Do you have any book recommendations, Willem?

Take care,

Curt[/quote]

#11

Interesting essay by Tamarack Song:

http://www.guardianwarrior.org/My_Homepage_Files/Page10.html

excerpt:

Martial Arts and the Guardian’s Relationship with Force/Violence

by Tamarack Song (edited by RedWolfReturns)

When a traditional Martial Arts fighter comes to a Guardian training
camp, he nearly always finds himself disoriented. There’s no level
playing field, and he almost never meets his match face to face as he
is accustomed to do. This leaves him feeling impotent. He can’t use
his senses to connect with his opponent, nor does he know what’s
coming at him or from where. His strength and fighting skills do him
little good, in fact, they have crippled him. This is because in
developing his strength and skills, he has ignored the development
of his innate intuitive, awareness, and defensive abilities. He stands
there like a Deer in the middle of an open field during hunting
season.

Why is this? Because fighting arts competitions are phony. They’re
unrealistic because they are staged. Even so-called “no holds barred”
“cage fights” are filled with artificial rules and conventions. Two
People face each other. There is posturing, an adrenaline rush, and
then action. The natural environment is gone, all the unknown
factors taken out of the situation. There is none of the stealth or
surprise that is part of a Guardian action where conflict is involved.
In a Martial Arts match, fighting is the only option. In a real life
situation, fighting is but one of many options.

#12

I hate to sound this way but, that quote strikes me as someone who has never engaged in combat.

I am not familiar with Guardian Warrior, other than here, but I doubt I would feel impotent or disoriented. I was taught tthat there is no level playing feild, and that our senses and brains are our most potent weapons. In the real world, one does not square off against one guy, b/c his friends are gonna kick you in the ass as soon as you turn your back. You never “meet you match”, that shit is in the movies. Either the other person beats or he doesn’t.

Maybe I was taught differently, b/c I trained with a teacher who’s goal was and is “street self defense”, wiht sparring taking most of every class. The cops in class taught me some good moves too

I agree with quite a bit of the second paragraph, especially how competitions are phony. That has been my complaint about UFC, and all the other “professional” competetiotions. too unrealistic. But to imply that participating leaves one lacking is somewhat false.

We were barred from tourneys, by our master and the local tourney boards, b/c we trained strictly for ass-whooping, not points. Occasionally we’d get guys from rival schools who’d challenge us, but they’d never win. They’d try for the “point” kick, land and stop, and we wouldn’t. BUt, we were different, i guess.

I’ll read up more on it, and report further. sorry if this is sort of disorganized.

#13
Some of you may be familiar with martial arts which are based not upon force opposing force but rather on allowing that which is directed at you to become you and flow through you. In this way the person who has expectation — who sees you as "opponent" — defeats himself, while at the same time helping you. He is directed, he has narrowed his focus, he is expending considerable energy in his aggression to defeat you. You are merely giving him his own energy, his own medicine, so-to-speak. Giving is receiving. "Because you are not resisting the flow — not walking in the wrong direction, as in the trail example above — you remain unscathed and refreshed. You maintain your centeredness, your perspective, and you keep your options open. It is much easier to move with the current than against it. And much more effective — you'll travel considerably more distance.

This is pretty much how I was trained. Not to resist, but travel with and redirect energy thrown at me. ONly a fool swims against the current.

I don’t know, I agree with alot of the sentiment of the article, but alot of the phrasings aggravate me.

this part i really didn’t like. i find it disengenous

Here are some characteristics of martial arts:
  1. they are practiced at a certain time and place
  2. the practice is separate and distinct from regular life
  3. the practice involves movements and postures that are different
    from regular life
  4. the practice is based on a different philosophy than that or regular
    life

the same could said about practicing anything. Woodworking is done in a certain time and place, distinct from regular life, and involves postures that are different. Number 4 could be said of just about anything, but I say this, if practicing is part of your “regular life”(which by definition it is) the philosophy invovled in practice of X skill are a part of your regular life. SHould I stop practicing guitar b/c I don’t make the shape of a minor 5th except then?

I get the sentiment, and have made similar criticisms about martial artists myself. But I don’t see how disparaging Martial Arts makes Guardian Warrior any better. seems to me one could replace Guardian Warrior with Ninja (or any other martial art) and it would still make sense.

At the same time these movements cannot be performed in a natural environment where one can be naturally responsive, because the natural environment interferes with the exercises

LOL, really? I use my Wing Chun training in the woods all the time. Moving quietly, quick reaction time, and climbing. Also, observation is the most important part of Martial Arts, IMO, and I use that literally constantly.

When I observe the basic stances and movements being taught in martial arts classes, I see what is learned naturally by moving through natural environments.

TO be a total smartass, I would like Song to show me where he learned a wrist strike in nature. Or maybe an outside crescent kick.

I wouldn’t mind taking this Guardian Warrior class, but I am not welcome at Teaching Drum. I “have a relationship” with tobacco and alcohol(not even weekly but I like to drink, yes), which makes me unfit to train with Song, as per his website’s statements.

You’ve taken this class,right Willem? could you tell what it’s like?

#14
You've taken this class,right Willem? could you tell what it's like?

Ha ha. No, I haven’t taken any of his classes, but I enjoyed your curmudgeonly response. I had almost the exact same reaction: “Yeah…true, but…hmmm”.

Any half-competent martial-artist will allow their art to change their entire lives, the way they move, and constantly question how it applies to awkward or unusual situations. And where else will a modern urban human get to train balance, awareness, reaction time, but through martial-arts or some such training regimen?

But, he makes a fair point, that one’s lifestyle determines the extent of one’s training.

#15

Alright! I made a page on “Body Skills” for the wiki, which focuses on the use of center. For now.

http://www.rewild.info/fieldguide/index.php?title=Body_Skills

#16
Alright! I made a page on "Body Skills" for the wiki, which focuses on the use of center. For now.

Cool! Thank you for doing this, Willem.

Curt

#17
TO be a total smartass, I would like Song to show me where he learned a wrist strike in nature. Or maybe an outside crescent kick.

So, what’s with the disrespect? I guess I would tend to expect a more respectful attitude toward others (especially elders) from someone with 15 years of wing-chun study under his belt.

I wouldn't mind taking this Guardian Warrior class, but I am not welcome at Teaching Drum. I "have a relationship" with tobacco and alcohol(not even weekly but I like to drink, yes), which makes me unfit to train with Song, as per his website's statements.

I think you’re making an assumption that you wouldn’t be welcome at the Teaching Drum. Lots of people come through the Drum who smoke and/or drink, they just leave their substances behind when they come (out of respect for the community’s wishes). Btw, do you smoke and drink in your dojo during class?

You've taken this class,right Willem? could you tell what it's like?

There are no “guardian warrior classes” being offered by Tamarack Song or the Teaching Drum Outdoor School. The Guardian Warrior Fellowship is an independent and informal fellowship that will be training it’s own. More like a practicing brotherhood than a school. I actually created the webpage.

#18

Cool! Thank you for doing this, Willem.

Curt[/quote]

“You’re welcome”…errr no.
“It’s my pleasure”…er…e-prime buzzer again.
Hmmm.

“No Curt…thank YOU!”… No, that sounds too passive-agressive.

Lessee. “I live to serve.” ha ha. Fun, but perhaps too formal. “It pleased me”. No, too auto-erotic. “But of course”. No, too arrogant. “Consider yourself welcome”…no, has the hidden ‘to be’ and thus sounds cowardly.

Let’s break down the word “welcome”. “Well-come”.

I wonder if “you’re welcome” actually means anything at all anyway. What do I actually want to say? “I feel good knowing that it fed your spirit”. That describes how I feel. Maybe I should make an interweb acronym: IFGKTIFYS…'I feel good knowing etc."

ha ha. oh well.

#19
So, what's with the disrespect? I guess I would tend to expect a more respectful attitude toward others (especially elders) from someone with 15 years of wing-chun study under his belt.
I have heard many songs-and-dances about so-and-so school is crap, or techniques make you a god, etc etc. This was one more. I was a bit harsh, but Song was kinda trash talking in the article, too. Like I said before, I never understood how disparaging other styles makes one's own better. Respect is earned, and I don't know/haven't read/never really heard of this dude Song, so I have very little respect for him. I'm not trying to be a dick, but my time is too important tome to waste it on mincing words.

I still think it is a valid question though…where exactly did he see a non-human do a wrist strike?

Btw, do you smoke and drink in your dojo during class?
no, but i don't go train for a year straight either. I don't really see how the two go together, but I imagine you were going with the "woods are my dojo, therefore sacred". I get you. Nothing profane about drinking ocasionally, IMO. Probably am assuming I wouldn't be welcome, but don't have an interest to go anyway.
#20

[quote=“Willem, post:18, topic:119”]“You’re welcome”…errr no.
“It’s my pleasure”…er…e-prime buzzer again.
Hmmm.

“No Curt…thank YOU!”… No, that sounds too passive-agressive.

Lessee. “I live to serve.” ha ha. Fun, but perhaps too formal. “It pleased me”. No, too auto-erotic. “But of course”. No, too arrogant. “Consider yourself welcome”…no, has the hidden ‘to be’ and thus sounds cowardly.

Let’s break down the word “welcome”. “Well-come”.

I wonder if “you’re welcome” actually means anything at all anyway. What do I actually want to say? “I feel good knowing that it fed your spirit”. That describes how I feel. Maybe I should make an interweb acronym: IFGKTIFYS…'I feel good knowing etc."

ha ha. oh well.[/quote]

Wow, reading that e-prime stuggle fed my spirit. What the hell do we mean with “you’re welcome”? The Russians say “pozhaluisto” meaning “please”–akin to our “please, you’re embarrasing me.” or “please, you don’t need to be so polite.”

How about “no trouble” or “no sweat”. One might assume an eliptical “to be”, but one could also assume “it caused me no trouble” or “i broke no sweat over it.”