I don't understand shit

Visions of the Rewilding Renaissance Grief & Praise
#1

Whenever I try to explain any of this rewild/ anti-civilization/ whatever stuff to anyone, it comes out all stupid.

Like, I recently got into a debate on another forum I frequent about the relationship between humans and other-than-humans, trying to say, we’re equal, and all things have conciousness, animals are intelligent, other things, and all that, but it didn’t read very good. No matter how I tried to word it. Not surprisingly, I got flamed pretty hard.

And today, my friend asked me who I’m voting for (it’s election time in Ontario), and I said I don’t like any of the parties. She asked me why, and, as if by subconcious reaction, I said “Cause I don’t like politics”.

Now, in a vague way that’s true. But not if you define politics simply as people getting together to make decisions. I could have said I don’t agree with politcal parties, government, and hierarchy altogether, but…it’s like a reaction with me. I always shy away from saying what I really mean.

But do I really know what I mean? A conversation on Anthropik got me thinking about this. Do I really understand this shit? Do I even believe it? I think so, but, examples so far have shown me lacking.

I understand that we all have masks that we wear for certain people, and that for extremists like us (compared to, say, Democrats) it’s hard to come right out and say what we want to say. It’s much better form to drop threads here and there, and let people come to the conclusion themselves.

Gah. This rant is dumb. Anyway. Should I study more? Should we create a rewilding quiz show? Or should I stick to what I’m good at.

That is, not spouting numbers and details and facts necessarily, but, instead, having give and take conversations, and expressing myself in other ways (art for example).

Is any of this making any sense?

Man, I feel like I just wrote a MySpace blog.

#2

yeah, i think i understand what you’re saying

i think you’ve kinda got a few things going on here tho’

as far as debates go, well, debating is it’s own skill, really. if you really don’t feel like you understand it at a deep level (or if you’re just really happy w/ your level of understanding) i would seriously recommend reviewing Jason’s 30 Theses (w/ comments). If you have questions about them or if you spot something that you think is incorrect, you can always put another comment on, or, if you’d prefer, start a thread here w/ the link and the question/issue/whatever; that way you can participate in a discussion about it, which often helps (as opposed to just reading it).

as far as shying away from saying what you mean, that’s prolly a good think for you to investigate. it might simply be a reaction born out of habit, or it may be more significant for you, i dunno, but if it’s causing you concern you should prolly try to figure what’s up.

and as far as doing what you’re good at, imho, that’s a good place to put your emphasis, but i’ve always been a big supporter of being well-rounded :slight_smile:

#3

I’ve been sounding crazy for a while now. Sometimes it fits me, and I feel like I do it well, and sometimes I don’t even understand what the hell I just said.

I definitely do better with the one-on-one, born-out-of-the-other-person’s-interest kind of discussion. I like debating to a degree, and I occasionally try my hand at it in writing, but I think I would suck pretty hard at it if I tried to do it live and in person – although, marriage has helped me in that regard.

I find it hard to gauge how an audience will react sometimes. I have had best friends who I thought had all the potential in the world to “get it” laugh in my face. Then a few years later, those same friends seem to start getting it, and we find ourselves able to engage in dialogues about rewilding.

I find a lot more acceptance of a sort among strangers who already have a concept of the importance of sustainability. They tend to already hold a critical view of civilization, so it comes as less of a shock. Although, sometimes they also think they can save civilization and keep it running indefinitely via sustainable means.

#4

Yeah. Those were what got me into this in the first place (after Ishmael). I think, I dunno, I prefer to soak something in in a more emotional way. Details bore me, to be honest. So maybe I’m just stuck that way, or maybe I just need to do more homework.

By the by, when’s the friggin’ book version coming out? I can’t wait to read it!

as far as shying away from saying what you mean, that's prolly a good think for you to investigate. it might simply be a reaction born out of habit, or it may be more significant for you, i dunno, but if it's causing you concern you should prolly try to figure what's up.

That’s a really good point. I think you might be on to something. I’ll sit and think a while.

All the stuff Rix said.

Perhaps I just need to be more patient. Focus on what I can do, and slowly get better at what I can’t.

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

#5

There are many adjustments of will that must be made. First of all, you have to deconstruct within yourself all the little mechanisms ready to spring whenever someone or something tries to change your mind. These are healthy mechanisms that have been programmed by little gremlins. YOu can never undo the mechanism; like I said, it’s healthy and unnatural, but one must make WHO YOU ARE a flexible being so that you can understand the difference between the person your parents, and society, wants you to be, and the person you are grasping at straws for.

You are obviously ready, but you feel like you can never have enough knowledge. You are one of the many who are unfortunately and are forced to learn things that people such as myself know on ‘instinct’. Can you forage from a moving car window? That comes from knowing the particular tree lines you find your favorite food in. It’s okay, no need to start with the big things like ‘instinct’.

Once you can see there is no capital ‘P’ Path, you can understand why the white road feels the need to be so sure; becasue the forked road, and life in general, looms with danger.

Look, we have been flat-out lied to. We have bene RAISED to believe life can be EASY if you WORK HARD. We are taught that if we BEHAVE we will be REWARDED.

Jesus, how many chances have floated on downstream due to our ‘if we behave we will be rewarded’ mechanism?

There are many, and I will give you a taste so that you have something to work with. But remember; Life can only be lived if you work hard. And no matter HOW HARD you work, if life gets easy, you ain’t doin’ it right.

#6
Whenever I try to explain any of this rewild/ anti-civilization/ whatever stuff to anyone, it comes out all stupid.

Like, I recently got into a debate on another forum I frequent about the relationship between humans and other-than-humans, trying to say, we’re equal, and all things have conciousness, animals are intelligent, other things, and all that, but it didn’t read very good. No matter how I tried to word it. Not surprisingly, I got flamed pretty hard.

I wouldn’t worry about it, half the time I feel the same way. I have some elementary understanding about certain things, but when it comes to sharing my thoughts with others it doesn’t always come out how I want it to. I used to argue and get into flame wars with people years ago about all sorts of topics, but now I don’t see the point. Nowadays I’d rather someone feel that they “won” the argument rather than waste my time trying to explain something to someone who isn’t receptive.

Internet type discussion is limited in its ability to share experiences with others, yea it has it’s uses but it’s just not the same as sharing in person. It does not do justice to many feelings/thoughts, many times I feel it would be more suitable to just go out hunting together or sit by a campfire and sing and play the drum or talk while walking on the prairie or forest and watching the sky and grass and birds. The sterile micro-environment of the computer makes for good theoretical, logical and scholary type discussion, but when talking about most things I consider important or that interest me I’d rather talk about it outside where one can go for a walk or just rest or engage in some practical outdoor activity.

#7

hello Jordan,
I want to share something with you. Maybe it relates to what you are feeling.

A number of years ago I did a vision quest under the guidance of an elder. Four days alone in the wilderness sitting in one spot. No food or water. I won’t go into what I experienced. A week or so later I was talking with my elder and asking him things about my experiences. This is what he told me.

He said I was trying to take make my experiences fit into a nice neat little package that I could call my “Vision Quest” There’s no need to try to figure out what it all means. Just let my vision quest become part of the body of my life’s experience. If I try to figure out what it all means and put it all into words it will diminish and limit the medicine of it. Some where down the road I may find myself in a situation and something from the vision quest may be there to help me. It’s possible if I have defined it all into a neat little box then it will be so limited that it will be of no use at a time when it could have been very valuable.

Anyway my point is that I think it’s fine to know thngs that you can’t put into words. Nobody but the already converted likes evangelists anyway.

#8

Well spoken, Billy.

#9

Thanks guys. I think I just have to not get sucked into situations where I’m dealing with people who a) already know their opinion before I’ve said anything and b) don’t really want to listen anyway.

And I agree heyvictor, I think it is important to retain those things which you cannot explain in words. If it makes sense to your heart than what more understanding do you need.

I think I shy away sometimes from dealing directly with my opinions because I tire of fruitless debates. As I said before, I prefer someone else to lead me into a conversation about something, and then I can drop breadcrumbs for them to follow.

Thanks guys. You helped me a lot.

#10

This thread appears to be neatly wraped up, but I’m gonna ad my bit anyway. I also have a difficult time expresing myself online. I feel like I do well in oral disscusions, but online it’s so different. You only get one draft to get it right, I feel like people are gonna judge me on my spelling and grammar, on top of what I am saying. There is no tone of voice to aid in expressing where you’re coming from, and folks can tear your language apart to make themselves sound smart, instead of trying to get your overall question or idea. If you feel something in your heart, how do you communicate that to folks on the internet that are going to demand your sources, or want to know the “science” behind your statement?

#11

Basically what you are saying, Trollsplinter, is that the internet contributes to human alienation. Yay for technology, right? ::slight_smile:

(You were being an anarcho-primitivist and you didn’t even know it! :D)

We SHOULD have a difficult time expressing ourselves online, if we truly seek what we say we seek. (At the least, online expression should be more difficult than expressing ourselves in person.)

#12

I, too, squawked recently about my difficulty writing out what haunts my mind (as opposed to speaking it).

But that just flowed out of me like one big enthusigasm. I feel a great deep love for that place. No confusion or ambiguity about my feelings!

Maybe the diffculty writing comes from stuff where my feelings (or thoughts) don’t feel as clear yet. In speaking with another person, sometimes cloudy stuff clears up as you talk, then dissipates like vapor. But in here, once it forms, there sits your dark cloud, evading clarity forever.

#13

I feel like I don’t understand stuff too. I feel like a precocious preteen with an old man’s heart which is often compromised due to static radiating from my occasionally malfunctioning mind. I just had one of my first in depth conversations with an intelligent and learned fellow who is a veteran and lover of America and I am glad he didn’t seem to have any hostility whatsoever towards me for my ideas which were so unlike his. He did say I have no right to complain because I do not vote… and I think I have said here before that the next time someone says that to me I was going to say “If I don’t worship the devil does that remove my right to talk about the devil?” After I said that I cringed inside because here I was likening something this guy loved to the devil… and I think I have thought of a better thing to say after the end of the conversation during a bout of reflection concerning what was said. You don’t contribute in the Iranian government… Do you have a right to complain about Iran? You see… I’m not coming out of leftfield. I’m not coming from a place that has anything to do with baseball anymore. I’m coming from a place yearning for different games all together.

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