Finding/creating a TRIBE

Regenerative Culture Relationships, Partnerships & Sexuality
#1

This is the best term I can come up with to describe what most of us seem to need the most in order to rewild. At least, that is one of my main needs, that I don’t have now, and the lack of it is holding me back from getting out there and taking steps toward rewilding. I think it is natural for humans to travel and live together as a tribe, which is different than a family, but includes families… I would love to hear everyone’s opinions on the importance and feasibility of tribes existing again, and specifically in a rewilding context…

When I first moved back to Ohio, I quickly got involved in this message board, and I have become more and more excited about foraging and horticulture, and learning all I can about rewilding… I did not have the great interest I have now even when I lived in portland, and I am not sure why. I think it has something to do with coming back home to Ohio, feeling “at home” and being around family. But now I am still yearning for my own “tribe” and am thinking about moving back to portland in a year or two, after i have experimented with horticulture and permaculture on my parents’ land. But I am so afraid that if I keep moving around I will never find a place to call home! I think that has as much to do with people as it does with place.

But i do have trouble with relating and putting trust in people that are not my family, as I don’t feel like I relate to most people on the level that is needed. I stay inside a lot because I live in the city now and don’t really have friends here that are interested in this kind of thing that I can hang out with in real life and discuss thoughts. Also, it’s the fall and there really isn’t much to do around town, and I don’t have transportation either. Anyway, I just wish it weren’t so hard to find people around me that are interested in rewilding and actually get out of the house and do something physical! It is a product of civilization and just proves that it’s the reason for people feeling so lost… and in need of a tribe!

-emily

#2

i think most tribes are going to need to grow organically as we rewild

i’m starting w/ family & community; i understand that most don’t understand me, much less agree with me, but i believe that will (mostly) change as time goes on and as i demonstrate rewilding skills to tackle practical problems.

as far as place goes, i’m very attached to SE Ohio, and i’m glad that my wife doesn’t have a problem with that :slight_smile:

we’re planning on leaving Columbus & moving down there for good in a few years.

as it is, even just driving down there… i don’t know, it’s partly the smell and partly the feel of the air and probably all kinds of things i can’t even pick apart, but it feels like home to me. i can relax there. so, we’ve definitely settled on where, but we don’t have a tribe yet (obviously) and i think it’s just going to have to happen “on the fly”. the farmer down the road might end up being part that tribe (you know, as he realizes that plowing isn’t really worth the effort anyway…) or he might not. we’ve got some family that may decided to join us. or they might not.

in the end, if you get thru tough times w/ people, if you have anything afterwards, then it’s a good start towards a tribe, imho.

#3

I agree with both of you, it will come with time, for sure, and as you meet people and for friendships and such. I guess I am just impatient most times. I want a group around me NOW! haha…

Plains! I got your message, I will reply though PM! I know what mean :slight_smile:

BAD hot cocoa?! You must have mixed it with water not milk :wink: ugh…

-emily

#4

It was the kind with powdered milk in it that you mix with water. Milk makes me sick however it is, but this is just bad.

#5

Well, not to be discouraging on purpose, my experience isn’t positive, but here goes the sharing…

I have been in rooms and campsites with lots of people that I could ‘almost’ get into a tribe with. I have made some pretty good friends, but they all had houses and responsibilties, and while it was nice to meet people who were as far along on the path as yourself, and find someone to mush you a little further, show you what you didn’t know you didn’t know.

I have also had a few idealistic friends who, like myself, all think that where they are at is the best place to make a tribe happen.

In fact, I’ve seen a few people just throw themselves into the wind, and I can’t think of anytimes where that has worked out. Not that it doesn’t, if you knwo what I’m sayin’.

This is such a tricky thing. So many people are jsut too darned scared of each other, and we all have lots of reasons not to trust each other.

This is why I believe we are still missing something, still on the path to discover undiscovered social territory that solves these issues.

#6

I also am anxious to form a “tribe”. It’s especially tough because now that we’re at the point where we’ve bought the land, and are near to paying it off, the community is the next necessity. I used to be to quick to invite people onto are land as their home. I have changed my mind about living with every single one so far.
It’s tricky finding people to rent a house with for a year, finding people to live with in a pretty isolated forest community for as long as possible? Geez louise! I’m lucky that I have three awesome brothers or else I don’t know what I would do. A total of 4 siblings and 3 partners is a decent sized group with a good diversity of skills and knowledge. I just would like to branch out a little, you know? (Even if we just added one skilled musician and I think I’d be fine.)

#7

[quote=“TrollSplinter, post:6, topic:513”]I also am anxious to form a “tribe”. It’s especially tough because now that we’re at the point where we’ve bought the land, and are near to paying it off, the community is the next necessity. I used to be to quick to invite people onto are land as their home. I have changed my mind about living with every single one so far.
It’s tricky finding people to rent a house with for a year, finding people to live with in a pretty isolated forest community for as long as possible? Geez louise! I’m lucky that I have three awesome brothers or else I don’t know what I would do. A total of 4 siblings and 3 partners is a decent sized group with a good diversity of skills and knowledge. I just would like to branch out a little, you know? (Even if we just added one skilled musician and I think I’d be fine.)[/quote]

hell, it sounds like you have a solid start right now. my unsolicited advice? just keep chugging… “Virtue is never left to stand alone. He who has it will have neighbors”. be flexible, be adaptable, be open; your tribe is sure to grow

#8

I have found the word “tribe” to trip me up over the years. I prefer to think of group subsistence as “socio-economic networks.”

The term “tribe” carries with it all kinds of connotations that limit what you can do, and who you can work with. For example, a small group of people who put on an event work together for a short amount of time, and than disband. I think the key word there is dis-band. They formed a band, did a job, and moved on. Like a hunting party in a larger tribe, a few people get together, go on a hunt, and afterwards break up and return to their seperate circles. Of course, everyone contributes to the subsistence of each family and so-on, but the idea of a “tribe” of a few individuals who always work together on the same project forever… I think limits the functionality and fluidity that come with socio-economic networks. Think about Pirates. They would form a crew for a little while, get some living made, and than disband. The same groups may form again, but the idea of the seasonal jobs or temporary partnerships that support each of their own little circles is what intrigues me the most about this model.

Even in Daniel Quinns Beyond Civilization, I didn’t feel satisfied with his idea of “tribal businesses” because they seemed to frame the business in a way that felt limited.

I don’t know if this is making any sense.

#9

that’s a good answer US. There does appear to be a need for an ideological agreement for people to want to work together, and we’re equipped to be more individualistic, socially. A lot of the nuances we expect wouldn’t be very functional in that more ‘is’ definition of tribe.

I believe many social technologies are still waiting in the shadows to be discovered, I think playing with ideas like tribe are getting us closer to what will help us survive this world and each other.

#10

Don’t want to take this too far off on a tangent but US’s post brought to mind something that I was a part of back in the early '80’s.
I was living in N. Idaho and got hooked up with a bunch of people who were somewhat scattered around N. Idaho and NW Montana that were tree planters. We would get together at contract bidding time, form a company, come up with a name, bid on Forest Service contracts, do the work, then disolve the company when the contracts were completed. No boss, every one responsible for there own tools, camp scene, food, etc. One guy had a little bus that we used to get our crew to work each day.

Later I became part of a co-op company, pretty much the same set up but with a few more things that were owned by the group and membership was more consistent. We kept the same name from year to year. Still no boss, everyone went out and planted except for a woman who who we paid to do our books for us.

There were a number of other hippie planting crews from Oregon, Wash., Idaho and Montana, all doing the same thing or something similar. We were competitors in the bidding process but once the work started we were comrades. Sometimes there would be two or three crews working in the same general vicinity and we would get together for some kick ass parties.

I suppose some might think of all of us scattered people as being of the same “tribe” since we had so many things in common and we would come together seasonally to bring in the money that we all needed to do the things we were doing. But for most of the year we lived in our own scenes, hundreds of miles apart. Some of those folks, I only saw at tree planting camp. And I had friends on other crews that I might not see for years. At that time we lived very hand to mouth so if I couldn’t make money or collect food on the way we didn’t go anywhere. I guess we were what ya’ll like to call bush hippies.

Sorry for the diversion, thought maybe you might find that interesting.

#11

very interesting, actually, thanks for sharing it. i’m going to have to start looking for opportunities like that in my neck of the woods

and, imo, i don’t think it’s a diversion at all. think it fits right in.

#12

Another time when a lot of us would see each other was in the late summer and fall. The fruit harvest in Washington was another opportunity for us to make money and also gather a lot of food. The Okanogan valley was probably the place where a lot of people went but all down through Chelan, Wenatchee, and Yakima had fruit to pick. The Yakima valley had any kind of food you could imagine except for tropical fruit, and if you looked around there were always places that for one reason or another had foodthat was free for the taking.

This was also a time for seeing friends. We’d head over in late August early Sept. and stay till the end of Oct. working. Then after the Tonasket Barter fair (which at that time was much smaller and lacked all the knick knack booths and crack pipes that you see there now) we would head back to our respective homes for the winter.

#13

I also think “tribe” is a tricky word for a handfull of reasons. I never use it in face to face conversation about my dream community, but while (attempting) typing I use it cause I’m lazy I guess and it’s only 5 letters long. ::slight_smile:

#14

[quote=“Urban Scout, post:8, topic:513”]I have found the word “tribe” to trip me up over the years. I prefer to think of group subsistence as “socio-economic networks.”

The term “tribe” carries with it all kinds of connotations that limit what you can do, and who you can work with. For example, a small group of people who put on an event work together for a short amount of time, and than disband. I think the key word there is dis-band. They formed a band, did a job, and moved on. Like a hunting party in a larger tribe, a few people get together, go on a hunt, and afterwards break up and return to their seperate circles. Of course, everyone contributes to the subsistence of each family and so-on, but the idea of a “tribe” of a few individuals who always work together on the same project forever… I think limits the functionality and fluidity that come with socio-economic networks. Think about Pirates. They would form a crew for a little while, get some living made, and than disband. The same groups may form again, but the idea of the seasonal jobs or temporary partnerships that support each of their own little circles is what intrigues me the most about this model.

Even in Daniel Quinns Beyond Civilization, I didn’t feel satisfied with his idea of “tribal businesses” because they seemed to frame the business in a way that felt limited.

I don’t know if this is making any sense.[/quote]

Peter,
I think I understand, I mean, giving a name to anything limits it, automatically giving it standards and guidelines that have to be followed in order to be called whatever it’s called… I guess I am looking at it from a point of view of a group of people that you trust, can count on for anything, are supportive and there for you emotionally and physically… that are living the same lifestyle and want to preserve that way of life, banding together when an outside threat is trying to dismantle or corrupt the group. Also, the word used conjures a certain image and nostalgia, or safety. Using the word “tribe” or “family” for me is much more comforting than “socio-economic network.” This term sounds to sterile, formal, or less intimate to me. But in terms of a business or working group, this makes more sense. That’s the main difference in the way we are using the term, I think, family vs. team… does that make sense? Sometimes i confuse myself!
-emily

#15

haha.

Yeah, I agree with you. I generally use the word family.

But even in a family, not everyone supports you and you can’t count on everyone and there may be people you don’t like even. I think the same is true for tribes. or bands even. I don’t need to get along with everyone in my family, just enough to feel supported.

That’s one of the reasons why I don’t like the word tribe, because I think most people assume that you have to agree with everyone and get along with everyone, or that you have to work with everyone who agrees with you. For example, there are lots of people in Portland who more or less want to rewild. But I think a lot of those people are assholes. Just because we are a rare breed, us-who-rewild, I assumed that I had to work with them. This always ended badly. Now-a-days I just work with people I work well with. Every time I started a “tribal business” it failed. As soon as we stopped seeing the businesses as tribes, but ships in a harbor, things started clicking. For example, a few ships in my harbor of Portland rewilding are TrackersNW and Mythmedia. TrackersNW is not my ship, but I can sail it once and a while to make some money. TonyD mostly takes care of the ship and takes it out on his own missions from time to time. I caretake the mythmedia ship, which I rarely take out but others have. What I have is a core group of friends who I love and who support each other, though sometimes we can’t work together on particular projects, we support each other. Sometimes we sail together, sometimes we let each other sail our ships, sometimes we go to another friend of ours ship who has nothing to do with anyone else.

The problem I think lies in defining the tribe. Where does the tribe start and where does it end? Like families, where do they start and end? Your cousin has a set of cousins who are not related to you at all. While your cousins are part of your blood family, your cousins cousins are not. Even a family you can’t readily define because each individual has a different relationship with everyone in the family and beyond.

A hunting band on the other hand, you can define. A crew on a ship, you can define. A team you can define. Because they are a core of people temporarily taking on a job. Everyone has a role in some sense or another to accomplish something.

Team, band and crew all have that temporary feeling that says, “if it doesn’t work, walk away.” Whereas the words “Tribe and Family” carry a kind of wieght that says, “Sorry, your stuck with us forever.”

A pitfall I have made (along with many other friends of mine) was to pick a handful of people and think of them as my “tribe.” That I couldn’t work with anyone on anything outside of the tribe, etc. But where do you limit the growth of it? What if I want to bring my whole family into the tribe? What if everyone wants to bring their whole family? Where does the line end and begin?

I don’t know. I don’t think you can draw a line around a family or a tribe or in cold, hard mechanical terms; :wink: a socio-economic network.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that I spent years forming and failing at creating tribes until one day I gave up and realized that I was already part of a tribe; the network of family and friends and their family and friends and so on. And that all I had to do was learn to encourage and support a culture of rewilding among those people.

As far as making a living goes, everyone in my family and close friends chips in to help each other out. Where the money/food/support comes in doesn’t necessarily come from us working together (sometimes) but that we form our own bands to make money and than distribute it among our own networks or families.

Does that make sense to anyone? Please help me, I’m still working these ideas out of my head.

#16

[quote=“Urban Scout, post:15, topic:513”]haha.

Yeah, I agree with you. I generally use the word family.

But even in a family, not everyone supports you and you can’t count on everyone and there may be people you don’t like even. I think the same is true for tribes. or bands even. I don’t need to get along with everyone in my family, just enough to feel supported.[/quote]

Yeah, I agree with you. I definitely don’t agree with my family members’ view points on a lot of things, but the things we do agree on and interests shared is what makes me want to learn things from them, and work on projects with them, like gardening and such, which my parents know a lot about. But I have different techniques that I want to use, and they are more set in their ways of doing things like they always have…

That's one of the reasons why I don't like the word tribe, because I think most people assume that you have to agree with everyone and get along with everyone, or that you have to work with everyone who agrees with you. For example, there are lots of people in Portland who more or less want to rewild. But I think a lot of those people are assholes. Just because we are a rare breed, us-who-rewild, I assumed that I had to work with them. This always ended badly. Now-a-days I just work with people I work well with. Every time I started a "tribal business" it failed. As soon as we stopped seeing the businesses as tribes, but ships in a harbor, things started clicking. For example, a few ships in my harbor of Portland rewilding are TrackersNW and Mythmedia. TrackersNW is not my ship, but I can sail it once and a while to make some money. TonyD mostly takes care of the ship and takes it out on his own missions from time to time. I caretake the mythmedia ship, which I rarely take out but others have. What I have is a core group of friends who I love and who support each other, though sometimes we can't work together on particular projects, we support each other. Sometimes we sail together, sometimes we let each other sail our ships, sometimes we go to another friend of ours ship who has nothing to do with anyone else.

Not neccessarily, but I understand your concern. I don’t think that everyone immediately assumes that to be a “tribe” or “family” forces all involved to share the same view points and think and act alike. I can definitely understand what you are saying, and in extreme cases that does happen, but those are the groups that you want to stay away from. I think that the most important thing about any group of people that are working towards something collectively is that each and every person brings some different talent, experience, resource, creativity, or skill to the group so that it’s diverse and multi-functional. that way you have several different view points and experiences to draw from when making decisions or planning things, or getting a job done.

The problem I think lies in defining the tribe. Where does the tribe start and where does it end? Like families, where do they start and end? Your cousin has a set of cousins who are not related to you at all. While your cousins are part of your blood family, your cousins cousins are not. Even a family you can't readily define because each individual has a different relationship with everyone in the family and beyond.

A hunting band on the other hand, you can define. A crew on a ship, you can define. A team you can define. Because they are a core of people temporarily taking on a job. Everyone has a role in some sense or another to accomplish something.

Team, band and crew all have that temporary feeling that says, “if it doesn’t work, walk away.” Whereas the words “Tribe and Family” carry a kind of wieght that says, “Sorry, your stuck with us forever.”

A pitfall I have made (along with many other friends of mine) was to pick a handful of people and think of them as my “tribe.” That I couldn’t work with anyone on anything outside of the tribe, etc. But where do you limit the growth of it? What if I want to bring my whole family into the tribe? What if everyone wants to bring their whole family? Where does the line end and begin?

I don’t know. I don’t think you can draw a line around a family or a tribe or in cold, hard mechanical terms; :wink: a socio-economic network.

True, it could get tricky if you try to define something like this to come up with one simple explanation or definition. Ideas like this need to be flexible and ever changing just like people that are involved… I see what you are saying about a family and being “stuck with” it (I do not do well in situations where I feel like I don’t have a choice or am not free to do my own thing because of other people’s rules, needs, or wants… and I definitely feel frustrated when I can’t do things I want because of obligations I may feel to a certain group or individual.), whereas non-relations are easier to remove yourself from, or take a different route if you need to. I think I am beginining to understand the tribe idea you have given examples of. And I think it’s a good example of the type of thing that I am feeling I need in my life, as I really don’t have anyone close by to share interests with outside of family. I am still trying to separate the important aspects of family vs. tribe relations and activities and differences… maybe if I knew more about social structures or something… do you have any books or something I could look into? I do admit that I dislike textbook-style books, and find it really boring… but I would like to investigate certain family and tribe structures to get a better understanding.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I spent years forming and failing at creating tribes until one day I gave up and realized that I was already part of a tribe; the network of family and friends and their family and friends and so on. And that all I had to do was learn to encourage and support a culture of rewilding among those people.

As far as making a living goes, everyone in my family and close friends chips in to help each other out. Where the money/food/support comes in doesn’t necessarily come from us working together (sometimes) but that we form our own bands to make money and than distribute it among our own networks or families.

Does that make sense to anyone? Please help me, I’m still working these ideas out of my head.

I think that happens alot, though, you don’t realize what you have around you is what you need until you try to find it somewhere else, and then come back to the realization that you already had it… which makes you appreciate it that much more.

#17

[quote=“Urban Scout, post:15, topic:513”]A hunting band on the other hand, you can define. A crew on a ship, you can define. A team you can define. Because they are a core of people temporarily taking on a job. Everyone has a role in some sense or another to accomplish something.

Team, band and crew all have that temporary feeling that says, “if it doesn’t work, walk away.” Whereas the words “Tribe and Family” carry a kind of wieght that says, “Sorry, your stuck with us forever.”[/quote]

Well, in a very large and general sense, I think that a tribe could be defined as a “team”, not for any specific task but for helping each other carve out the best possible life. And yeah, you kind of are stuck with a tribe forever, because how would you survive on your own, especially as you advance in age? I guess you could defect to another tribe, if possible.

I think a person could accurately claim (and yeah, if you’re wondering, I’m making that claim) that you can define a distinct boundary around “traditional” tribes to describe who belongs and who doesn’t. They have common shared spaces for sleeping, eating, ceremonies, etc. - as well as shared mental spaces (culture and knowledge and so forth).

The question is whether it is possible and/or desireable to form a tribe in that traditional sense, or whether you want to (or have to) form a “tribe” using a redefinition of the word. It’s a tricky word, and personally I’d rather use it to describe the “traditional” social unit, but everyone’s going to assign it their own meaning, so I keep that in mind.

#18

Just a little bit of info here. I know people who are enrolled members of “tribes” who are not entirely comfortable with the word tribe because of some of the baggage that the word carries.

#19
I think a person could accurately claim (and yeah, if you're wondering, I'm making that claim) that you can define a distinct boundary around "traditional" tribes to describe who belongs and who doesn't. They have common shared spaces for sleeping, eating, ceremonies, etc. - as well as shared mental spaces (culture and knowledge and so forth).

The question is whether it is possible and/or desireable to form a tribe in that traditional sense, or whether you want to (or have to) form a “tribe” using a redefinition of the word. It’s a tricky word, and personally I’d rather use it to describe the “traditional” social unit, but everyone’s going to assign it their own meaning, so I keep that in mind.

Well said, that is also the definition I have in mind, and that’s how I lived with the Bedouin. We slept next to each other often sleeping only a foot or two away from each other around the fire. We ate together, shared celebrations and daily life and feasts and went hunting together, herding camels, selling goats, drinking tea and visiting Bedouin families in the desert. I mostly stick to a smaller closer circle of families over there yet I am friendly with most of the other members of the tribe and while the feasts and daily social interaction usually involve this smaller circle for the most part they do commonly include members of the larger tribe fairly often.

Daily social interaction is characterized by the sharing of necessities (food/water/clothing/shelter/etc) and the genuine concern for each other as human beings. This is worthy of note because I find it non-existent and lacking among other social groups in other countries in general. The extended family is the basic social unit and has not been undermined to the extent it has been in N. America and much of Europe. Individualism and the nuclear family are not very common and thus it’s hard to draw parallels with the social scenes here and there, as it’s so different. I’ve been accepted into the community life of a tribe over there and the locals refer to me as a member of Suleiman’s family, granted it’s not stone-age hunting gathering clan life but it meets my socio-economic needs.

I feel pretty blessed and thankful to have the extensive social support network that I have over there and I surely miss it whenever I am away from the area, I also feel the inevitable social and economic obligations to certain people over there which comes with being a part of a clan-based social group. Honestly though, I would rather have those obligations and have that extended family closeness and “social security” and life than not have it and be free of all obligations and alienated and alone to fend for myself vis-a-vis alien social groups and alien economic structures as is the norm for N. America and Europe. There are some health issues which result from my carelessness when I’m in the village in regards to water but these are solved when I take the proper precautions.

So when it comes down to it, I feel that I have already found my “tribe” so to speak with my small circle of brothers and their families in S. Jordan. I have come close to them in ways that I have never come close with people here in N.America. It’s convinced me that kinship and tribal-type social relations are not relegated to the historical past or novels like Lord of the Rings, but they are possible here and now and what I want for my children as well as other people and myself.

I think it would be neat if people could connect in a similar way in N. America or Europe or what not but I think most people just don’t have the social background to allow them to do so. I think cultural conditioning has more of an impact than most people would like to believe, I hope that does change and more people can create more clan-based social relations.

#20

I’m glad you jumped in with your experience Sandwalker. Many “tribal” people here in N. America also have adoption rituals for adopting new people into their family. In my experience these are not just token gestures to honor someone. When someone is adopted, they become a member of the family with the privileges and responsibilties that come with it. They get the support of the family and in turn it’s expected that they will support the other members in whatever way they can.

It’s hard for mainstream N. Americans to imagine this and it would be hard for me to imagine a bunch of people coming together and being able to really embrace this way of relationship. When an individual gets to experience a family extending this support during a difficult time and is brought into the family not only in a ceremonial way but in a real everyday kind of way, a lot of our old cultural conditioning can fall away.