Dogs for hunting and travel

Regenerative Subsistence Fauna Food
#1

There was an interesting topic about dogs for hunting/travel/companionship on Paleoplanet some time ago, I would be interested in more discussion on this subject, as well as the use of other animals for living out on the land.

At some point very early on humans recognized the benefits of having dogs around for hunting, staying warm at night and travelling longer distances in search of game and for carrying their stuff.

I was very interested in Saluki hounds and their possibilities for obtaining wild meat in Jordan when I returned there earlier this year. These are the traditional hunting dogs of the Bedouin of that desert. They were very common in the past yet have decreased in importance in many areas. I met one of the families who still live the tent life in the desert who were training a young Saluki and also met a man in a village who owned two of these hounds. They are more common in the areas where the locals rely more on hunting and have more space to run around in.

They are like a smaller greyhound and they are extremely fast. When properly trained they will smell out and run down a rabbit and then return with it to the owner. They can also be trained to hunt gazelles. I think such a dog would be beneficial to have for someone wishing to live more off wild game in such an area, there is nowhere to set snares in the open desert and deadfalls have limited usefulness for many of the small game animals.

Another example would be the use of falcons and hawks for hunting. This is another very historical method of obtaining wild meat in this area, yet like the Saluki it’s become less common in some areas, however in other areas it’s become more common due to it’s resurgence as a “hobby” type sport in the oil-rich states of the Gulf.

Apparently falcons and hawks can be trained to hunt not only game birds, but deer and gazelles. Although I have not had an opportunity to do any falconry it’s something I plan on trying out when I return to the area.

There are countless enthnographies I have read about Australian aborigines using dingoes to help them hunt and for warmth at night, and the plains tribes of N.A. using horses to increase mobility and hunt bison, Inuit peoples using dogs to sniff out seals and travel and hold bears at bay, moose hunting with dogs as is still practiced among some Scandinavians, otters trained to catch fish for hunters in Finland, etc.

#2

I found this interesting info about the Saluki on the net:

from - http://members.tripod.com/Sighthounds/salukiinfo.html

“This desert hound, well known for their speed and endurance, were kept primarily for hunting hare and gazelle. By careful breeding, they are an independent and intelligent hound, often hunting out of sight and supervision of their master. They have “hare feet” with strong webbing between the toes, for running swiftly in sand. They achieve their speed through what is known as a double suspension gallop. All four feet are off of the ground during the flexed and extension phase. They are also an endurance runner, being able to run for miles without tiring, unlike the English Greyhound, which is a sprinter and would tire much sooner. At a trot they have a prancing type of step, similar to what is found in Arabian horses. If they lose sight of their quarry, they leap or spy-hop to become sighted again, sometimes as high as seven feet! Salukis have a single layer coat, with no oily, downy undercoat, for surviving the heat of the desert. This is the reason that they have no “doggy” smell. They come in both smooth and feathered varieties, with the feathered having a silky feathering on the ears, tails, and legs.”

They are very beautiful and unique hunting dogs, the ones I seen had golden-tan colored coats.

#3

One thing I’ve wondered about, with the primitive living community, is why people don’t talk about livestock. Horses could be useful in some instances – I don’t have any, but I know people who do. What I do have is goats. I milk them; I pack them; and when there’s a surplus one I eat them. They do a lot less damage in the wilderness than horses do (since we pass through an area relatively quickly, they leave no more sign than a few deer would), and can go places that even humans can’t get to unless they are technical rock climbers.

Sheep are another useful animal for nomadic people. Wool clothing is a lot more comfortable than wet leather. There’s a reason why most people the world over keep some kind of fiber animal, rather than depending on leather and furs for all of their clothing.

The only thing I haven’t figured out yet is how to travel with poultry for eggs, LOL!

Freeholder

#4

Well, freeholder, probably the reason that most rewilders dont like livestock is A) because they are nonnative to northamerica (if you are in N.A.) and B) because they are not wild, but domesticated. Once someone ownes livestock, they are primarily a herder, in stead of a hunter-gatherer, as most rewilders want to be. Though in the case of hunting aid animals, such as dogs falcons and horses… its open to debate.

#5

I have personally had some positive re-wilding type experiences with goats and camels in Arabia but the land and socio-economic conditions there are quite different from N. America, although the Navajo practice a similar way of life in many aspects.

I think Crash keeps a small herd of goats for food and so on somewhere in Montana, perhaps he could offer his opinion on their use for subsistence/re-wilding in N. America.

#6

I have been really seriously looking into dogs lately, and have been studying falconry mildly for a few years. I chilled out on falconry because you can’t really do it legally without a car, and I don’t even have a license. I recently have become obsessed with the Shiba Inu, I want a dog with excessive down hair for spinning, good heat retention, hunting capabilities, good endurance, and companionship. The Shiba Inu covers most of these, but it seems so icky buying a pure breed dog for hundreds of dollars. Plus buying a small dog (the breed tends to wander) and bringing it in to cougar country seems like a good way to loose a friend.

#7

Trollsplinter: ai highly recommend checking out the Akita-inu which is similar, but much bigger.

#8

I have met some Akitas; they are an extremely friendly breed. (Or maybe I just get along with dogs)

#9

akita-inu ? I’ve heard of that dog before, v.cute, where is it from? Err I guess I can look it up myself, it sounds Japanese tho.

edit: ya it is! I’d love a dog like that.

#10

I could tell you once about siberian huskies as i’ve lived with them for some time in the forest. I miss them really…

But i feel sleepy and really… just ask what you want to know …

#11

I’ve owned small livestock before (sheep and poultry). One of my dogs is an excellent herder, so much so he’s attempted to herd elk (with some success, with the exception of on very large old bull elk). Dog people are generally excellent friends as long as you realize a few things.

  1. You are part of a pack now.
  2. Dog people culture is very hierarchical. Some humans can’t deal with that.
  3. One of you will be Alpha. Most of the time, it’s a really good idea that you be the Alpha, both for your friends sake and yours.
  4. Most domestic dogs are descendants of Omega wolves. That means that they generally will want you to be Alpha and they need to run and play and socialize, just like their relations.

And yeah, the Dine’h have done small scale livestock (sheep) with dogs since the 1600s (if you believe the anthropologists, if you believe the Dine’h, they claim that the sheep were always in their memory).

#12

I actually do prefer the small size of the Shiba Inu over the larger Akita. They are less prone to hip problems, do well hunting smaller game, and seem like they would be easier to travel with. Sure an eagle could make off with one, but you can’t really let either of them run of a leash with out some serious discipline anyway. I don’t imagine an eagle our coug is gonna gobble down a dog 10 feet away from me. Mostly I want another set of ears and a nose that put mine to shame around. The Shiba can do that. Plus, they are just so fricken cute! I can’t really handle it. I think (hope) it would be safe enough as long as it was near me.

#13
Dog people culture is very hierarchical.
[url=http://anthropik.com/2006/11/alpha-dogs-wolf-packs-the-wandering-free-families/]Actually, that's a myth.[/url]
#14

i saved a diné (navajo) herding dog when i was living down there. she’s been my full time sidekick since she was 4 weeks old. when we are out and about she doesn’t leave or take off. i have no fear of her ever running away or chasing off after creatures.

i’m working on her hunting skills.

she’s med. weight, looks like a german short hair pointer and can jump like 5 feet straight in the air. almost broke my nose a couple times. i think she could be easily trained to retrieve birds, etc. pretty good at locating. i’ve gotten her to locate friends in the bush before. she’s also protected our food from other creatures and will alert us to another animal presence.

#15

have you checked out the catahoula leopard dog? their pretty neat. they’re an american breed and descendants of the red wolves many natives kept as pets and spanish war dogs that the Spanish left behind. supposedly, their great hunting dogs. and they’re a lot less prone to disease because they haven’t been as over breed as other hunting dogs. i’ve also heard that because of the wolf in them, they like to climb and sleep in trees. how cool is that? if i ever got a dog it would definitely be a catahoula.

here’s a link to the wikipedia page:

#16

oh shoot.
i misspelled “they’re”.
my bad.

#17

#18

Although dogs have been a part of mans history for a long time we often forget that they played a very important role in the hunting of game.
While just about any type of dog from pure bred to mutt will make an excellent companion and traveling dog, some breeds do stand out more than others.
As a dog person I have a couple of prefrences that can be considered.
First is perhaps a breed that would normally be overlooked due to their size. The Miniture Pincher while of small size are EXCELLENT hunting dogs for small game and low flying birds. They are known as Der Pincher in Germany where they were first seen hunting the small RED (Der) deer of the region. My 2 year old female is an better mouser than most cats, has caught and returned to me still living Quail, went in a rabbit hole and brought out a buck rabbit that weighed almost 10 pounds, and is so fearless she has gone nose to nose with Pit bulls and Rotweillers until the larger dog backed down. :o
She can also be very vocal when strangers come around yet also very gentle with children and babies.
She has also never been formally trained to do any of these things. ;D

My second choice would be the Chow Chow. These medium sized dogs are still used in rural parts of China as cart dogs and pack dogs. Similar to Husky’s and Malumuts in their ability to work as a team to move a heavy load they are more often seen in single harness. Pound for pound these are perhaps the strongest pulling dogs in the world.
Due to their coats natural water proofing their hair is often carded like a sheeps to make warm water resistant sweaters.
One other factor makes the Chow Chow a good companion is that short of a full size bear or mountain lion there is nothing in the american wild that can stand up to the sheer ferocious power of the breed. :o Most American wolves that have encountered a Chow Chow in a one on one situation have died in the ensuing fight or fled when beaten, yet they can also be extremely gentle with people they know and very protective of children. For several years before she passed away my Black Chow Chow was part of a program that brought dogs and cats to visit children with incurable diseases. She always made it a point to spend time with each child but she seemed to know which child was not going to live for much longer and spent the most time with that child. Her passing was mourned by more than just myself. :’(
Last but not least both breeds have the uncanny ability to catch fish better than most wild cats. 8)

#19

Thanks for the info pagan48! I look forward to the day when I travel with my own hunting dogs in the desert :slight_smile: