Clearing Up Assumptions

Visions of the Rewilding Renaissance Common Misconceptions
#1

Hello Rewild Folks,

I’ve noticed some contention on this site over the last few days, mostly stemming I think from the primitive skills vs. rewilding thread. I’d like to clear up some assumptions that I feel people making which have caused this division.

  1. The core of rewilding involves walking away from civilization to create a new culture based on principles from cultures that people have observed to work. Rewilding does not mean seeing those cultures, mostly hunter-gatherers and horticulturalists, as perfect, but as systems that worked better than what we have now; civilization. If you feel curious to learn what made their systems better than civilization, please ask about it, you may have something to learn. If you do not feel curious about it, and do not believe that civilization does not work, the social-political aspects of this forum may not suit you well.

  2. Creating a new culture involves more than tool-making. Tool-making work as central part to the culture, as well as many other elements. Hunter-gatherer cultures worked better not only because of their tools, but the systems and culture in which they used them. If we want that kind of working system, we want to make those tools and learn the system. Rewilding does not invovle “thinkers” and “doers.” A culture refers to the totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought. Creating a new culture involves tool-making, systems thinking and system & tool implementation… and much more. By studying all of the totality of hunter-gatherer cultures we can see why their systems worked better than what we have now, and use that knowledge to create new cultures. Again, if only tools interest you, I encourage you to limit yourself to those sections of Rewild.info. We appreciate those who do very much.

  3. Many people out there have much to offer, no matter their background; red neck, hippie, whatever labels you want. Creating a new culture involves having people who wish to do so. Because culture bases itself from a certain world view, and rewilding invovles walking away from the culture of civilization, finding others who want to walk away from the civilized world view seems very important to creating a new culture. While any civilized person has tool-making skills to offer (and thank you to those who do) it seems equally important to find others with those abilities who wish to walk away from civilization as well; so that you can create that culture. While I have many teachers and mentors who love civilization, I don’t count on them helping me form a new culture (although some, like my family, will do so anyway).

  4. A lot of rewilding philosophy comes from preparing for the collapse of civilization. The majority though, comes from the desire to walk away from civilization and create a new, wild culture. While collapse sometimes steals the spotlight with its shroud of urgency, the real dream involves creating a holistic culture that will last beyond civilization. Tool-making and stock pile conversations tend to go hand in hand with “surviving the collapse,” while tool-making, knowledge of systems and people seem to go hand in hand with “walking away from civilization” and “cultural creation.”

  5. The intent behind my Primitive Skills vs. Rewilding critique involved showing how the mainstream perceives primitive skills, and how rewilding involves all that primitive skills have to offer, and more. It also involved my desire to find and see people who do more than primitive skills; the cultural creation beyond civilization.

  6. This site exists for people who implement all of the rewilding aspects into their lives, to share how their trials and tribulations of creating a new, sustainable culture. It works as cross-cultural pollination. If you would rather experience trial and error yourself without hearing stories from others, or if you have others rewilding near you to speak with and learn from… please go do that! I have a large community in Portland that implements rewilding cultural creation everyday and who I speak with about it everyday. I also created this site to “extend my reach” beyond my everyday community to people all across the board. If you have no interest in extending on a computer, than go to one of the many primitive skills/rewilding cross-cultural pollination gatherings across the country. As kiliii said, many exist. Or you could do what I do, and do everything!

  7. If you have any questions about the points I have just laid out, please ask in a direct manner and use specific examples.

Thanks,

Scout

#2

Thanks for that Urban Scout. I am definitely somebody who doesn’t quite get it. I can tell you a little about myself and my experience.

I’m 50. I grew up in the city, raised by a single mom. I left home at a young age and lived on the road and the street. Got hooked up with the Rainbow family in the late 70’s, maybe 1980. Traveled in that scene for several years. Was one of the ones that used to show up early to set up and stay late to clean up after the Gatherings. Lived communally. Moved to the woods and my kids grew up there. No electricity no running water. Lived in a tipi at 35 below. Learned about wood and hunting and putting away food, while I was trying to provide for a family with three kids. We lived in an area of other like minded folks.
In our neighborhood we were all living hand to mouth. Raising animals growing gardens, some hunting. We started a couple of co-op companies to do forestry related work in order to bring in the cash we needed.

So you can see I had my ideals as a young person and I gave up the mainstream and put my ass on the line. No excuses of why I’m not ready or any of that. Didn’t spend a whole lot of time philosophizing about it just gave all my stuff away and walked out to I-80 and stuck out my thumb.

I’ve been waiting for the mainstream to come tumbling down for thirty years. But it just keeps mutating, so I still need to make money I still have to live in this world. I’ve tanned hides for a living for the last ten years now.
Over the years I may have lost a lot of my resolve but I’ve learned to hate the “us and them” thing. It’s no good, it won’t advance your new culture. That’s the main problem I’ve encountered reading the posts here. I don’t see a lot of love here. If you can’t find that, your doomed.
So now I’m going back to school so I can work with young people and help them see that they have more options than they might be getting told about.

What I have to say to ya’ll is get off your asses and live your ideals instead of intellectualizing about them on the internet for another ten years. The natural world will teach you things you can’t figure out from your comfortable home.
I’ve slept outside when it was 20 below because I had no where else to go and I’ve spent a good deal of time being cold and wet. It’s all good.

Probably off topic or something but it’s qwhat came up for me when I read this stuff here. I’m probably done here so you don’t need to give me the boot.

#3

Billy,

I'm probably done here so you don't need to give me the boot.

Actually, your words and perspectives have a lot of value and weight here. Which inspired me to clarify the intentions of rewilding for you and others. In other words, I want you here. For the very reasons you mentioned above. You have an experience that we can draw from by asking you what worked. While nature has lots to teach, if you can hang out here and give us tips, we might live through mistakes you made and find new mistakes to make that will give us all a clearer picture for walking away from civilization.

What I have to say to ya'll is get off your asses and live your ideals instead of intellectualizing about them on the internet for another ten years.

Most of us don’t sit on the computer all day intellectualizing and philosophizing about these things; we live them. This site just serves as a place for us to learn from each other to quicken the learning curve.

But it just keeps mutating, so I still need to make money I still have to live in this world.

Too true. We all live in this culture, despite our urges to live wild. Because rewilding refers to a verb and not a noun, it remains an action and not a destination. Rewilding encompasses every and any attempt one makes to free themselves from the domestication of civilized life.

So you can see I had my ideals as a young person and I gave up the mainstream and put my ass on the line. No excuses of why I'm not ready or any of that. In our neighborhood we were all living hand to mouth. Raising animals growing gardens, some hunting.

Actually, quite a few of us (myself included) live such as you described right now. I grow a lot of food in backyards and secret gardens. I gather a lot from yards and eat roadkill. I haven’t had success hunting yet, but just met a mentor who will teach me to set a trap line this fall.

Over the years I may have lost a lot of my resolve but I've learned to hate the "us and them" thing. It's no good, it won't advance your new culture. That's the main problem I've encountered reading the posts here. I don't see a lot of love here. If you can't find that, your doomed.

I often feel extreme grief at how people carelessly destroy the world. I feel it very deeply and it effects much of my body. I have always felt that way, since I can remember. Often the people who do not show respect for animals and plants also have the skills of harvesting them. I learn from them sometimes, but often my grief of their destruction, and their un-willingness to change makes me upset. Especially when I feel outnumbered or powerless to say anything about it. In order to learn more and hear from other people who have experienced many failures and mistakes (so I don’t make them) I need to communicate with them. People who don’t care about changing civilization, will not have the experience of experimenting with sustainable cultural change. The desire to create a new culture that works stems from a deep love of life and the world we live in. Why else would I feel so deeply about people who wish to continue a destructive life, and do not care to hear of any other way that works?

Those people will care though, and hopefully when the time comes they will change their minds and sustainable cultures will exist for them to join. But they themselves will not create these cultures, and to do so requires people discussing and experimenting with creating them.

For those of us like you and me, we need places to share information in order to learn what works. Please continue to share on this site what experiences felt hard or easy. Please share your mistakes and failures, as well as your successes. We need more seasoned people like yourself.

#4

qft. (not that the people on here aren’t loving or anything… but what you said in general)

So now I'm going back to school so I can work with young people and help them see that they have more options than they might be getting told about.

What I have to say to ya’ll is get off your asses and live your ideals instead of intellectualizing about them on the internet for another ten years. The natural world will teach you things you can’t figure out from your comfortable home.


See I’m a college student, and of course I’d love to get off my ass and live my ideals, and I do, to a limited amount… but I must come back to where I reside here… if I had the exact same mindset two years ago, I might not have gone to school in the first place, but I do, and when I make a decision, I stick with it, so I go to school, and until then the best I can do remains to intellectualize, and see how much I can fit into my normal day here. I live in the city as well, so walking outside, while their may be some small 100 yard dense passages of brambles around here… driving remains the only way to get me out of the city. And anyhow I don’t have this community to leave and go to, and of course I’m sure they aren’t all chillin on the interweb, but, I’ve begun to meet a few, off and on, so… just my beginning…
#5

And there are a few of us who have family that isn’t on board (yet).

I’m on another end of the spectrum from heyvictor, I guess. I have little experience. I’m going very slowly. I’m convinced that I’m going to see a collapse of civilization within my lifetime. I’m not entirely sold on the total rewilding package, but I’m a hell of a lot more sold on it than what “civilization” has offered me. I’m here mostly to listen to others and learn, and get some vicarious validation by knowing I’m not the only person who thinks this civ is bunk.

And typically, all my internet time is stolen while I’m at work, so it’s not wasted time, it’s reclaimed time.

#6

“Please share your mistakes and failures, as well as your successes. We need more seasoned people like yourself.”

“Seasoned” yeah I like that term. :wink:

OK Scout, I appreciate your tolerance of my orneryness. I’ll give this some thought and see what I can share here. It will be interesting, hopefully it won’t end up being like some geezer talking about “when I was your age”.

Funny how I hear myself doing that more and more.

#7

[quote=“heyvictor, post:6, topic:431”]hopefully it won’t end up being like some geezer talking about “when I was your age”.

Funny how I hear myself doing that more and more.[/quote]

ha! feel free, i don’t get those much anymore, and, strange to say, i kinda miss 'em.

#8

Man, my entire life goal is to bee a geezer with all kinds of when I was your age" stories.

#9
Over the years I may have lost a lot of my resolve but I've learned to hate the "us and them" thing. It's no good, it won't advance your new culture. That's the main problem I've encountered reading the posts here. I don't see a lot of love here. If you can't find that, your doomed.

I think what you see as a lack of love actually stems from an abundance of frustration. I see a lot of love on this site. I see a lot of encouragement and helpfulness and support.

The whole us/them thing I think actually comes from “us” trying to define how what we do differs from what “they” do. That doesn’t make “them” bad or less or anything derogatory. It must means that “we” have a different purpose that “them”.

I think Scout did an amazing job of summing up that difference and really defining what this site and the rewilding movement boils down to. We don’t disdain physical skills, and we definitely want to learn them, but we don’t want to stop there.

I too hope you stay around, heyvictor. This site exists so that those who want to learn can. We could use a lot more people like you who have gone through what we want to go throuh – but since we lacked that so far, we have tried to do the best we can on our own.

What I have to say to ya'll is get off your asses and live your ideals instead of intellectualizing about them on the internet for another ten years. The natural world will teach you things you can't figure out from your comfortable home.

I do sit around on the internet all day – because I have a computer-based job, and I steal time from that job in order to put my mind into the rewilding game. (Reclaimed time – I like that, Andrew.) I don’t look down on anyone who tries to gain something for themselves no matter what route they do it by.

Your path differs from mine, but that doesn’t mean that either of us have chosen the wrong path. I try to learn from others via this internet forum, and then I take those things I have gained intellectually here out into the natural world with me. Then I come back to the internet to try to share them again with others. That cycle works for me in the situation I have chosen to live with for now.

Maybe someday I’ll go freeze my ass off too, but until then I will put my brain to work trying to figure out how best to freeze my ass off when the time comes.

#10
Over the years I may have lost a lot of my resolve but I've learned to hate the "us and them" thing.
The whole us/them thing I think actually comes from "us" trying to define how what we do differs from what "they" do. That doesn't make "them" bad or less or anything derogatory. It must means that "we" have a different purpose that "them".

& making those distinctions, shedding light on the confusion that seperates domestication from wildness, makes up a part of that purpose. I know I’ve lived a life as full of confusion, as any person possibly could, and I don’t see any reason to villify anyone and make an enemy out of them just because I see them in the grips of civ rather than the embrace of the land. The us/them thing never means superior/inferior to me because I know at the core all things live and can listen and can change, and same as I would want to help a wounded bird I’d want to help a wounded human, assuming I have the spare time and ability to do so.