Capitalism, Corporatism & Anarcho-syndicalism

First, let me say that this was originally going to be a reply to the topic “Money”, posted earlier in this section of the forum, however there was a red text message stating that the post was over 120 days old and suggested that I should create a new topic. So I did.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, charging money for something is not capitalism. Charging what you think someone is worth is not capitalism. Making money is not capitalism. Making more money than you need at the expense of others is capitalism.

Scout, I agree with your sentiment, however I’d have to say that borrowing money you do not have (especially in amounts you could never earn on your own) and being charged interest on that money is capitalism. Because the borrower did not work for that money and therefore has no emotional attachment to it, and because there is a great desire imbued by the lender to repay that money, the borrower may be put into a position where repaying the money is more important then the welfare of the borrower’s fellow people, the environment, the economy, or anything else for that matter. This is reflected in corporate law in that a corporation is required to put it’s bottom line and profit margins above all else. In other words, if a corporation engages in activity that is contrary to it’s shareholders “right” to earn a profit from their investments, it’s breaking the law and could lose it’s charter (see the documentary “The Corporation”). I think that for your definition, “Making more money than you need at the expense of others” is better fit with the term corporatism. However, don’t get me wrong. At the core concept, I find nothing wrong with the idea of borrowing money to, say, start a business or buy a home. It’s the charging of unfair intrest rates, or the lending of very large amounts of money (in the 100’s of millions or even billions) that creates the unbalnce in the system. Even more than that, we live in a country run by a fiat economy, where the money created by the Federal Reserve has no backing, and is printed and created out of thin air. THAT’s the problem. Check out this movie “America: Freedom to Fascism”.

On that note, I’d like to write a little about punks and anarchy, as it was a prevelant issue in the “Money” topic. First, let me say that nobody likes a punk. That’s the definition of a “punk”. A person who acts like a “punk” or generally rebellious, especially to the point of hurting others emotionally or physically, is acting out of anger and hatred. The term “anarchistic punk” is an oxymoron in my opinion, because true anarchy (no government at all) would never work if everyone hated eachother (or there was even a small group of “haters”). Only out of love, generosity, and care could such a “non”-system survive. Also, In my opinion, anyone that puts that much effort into how they look or how they act is more concerned with their own self image than the political system they live in.

A better ideal to reach for would be Noam Chomsky’s “Anarcho-syndicalism”.
To quote professor Chomsky:

A federated, decentralized, system of free associations incorporating economic as well as social institutions would be what I refer to as anarcho-syndicalism. And it seems to me that it is the appropriate form of social organization for an advanced technological society in which human beings do not have to be forced into position of tools, of cogs in a machine, in which the creative urge, that I think is intrinsic to human nature will in effect be able to realize itself in whatever way it will.

Yeah. I agree.

I bought paper to print Derrick Jensen posters. The paper was probably made by Weyerhauser, the inks were probably from some fucked up shit… I mean, every part of this economy is capitalistic. So, if you buy food at the grocery store, clothes, pay rent, taxes, etc. You participate in capitalism by supporting other capitalist ventures. That doesn’t mean you can’t use the economy to dismantle the economy. I think that was my point really, that everyone participates in capitalism and that we have no choice, and if you want to create a new choice, you’ll need to leverage the weight of the capitalist economy against itself.

For example, I don’t see a problem with an anti-civilizationist driving a hummer. If Derrick did drive a hummer, so what? The first thing that comes to my mind reflects something Derrick wrote about toilet paper; don’t feel guilty about using toilet paper simply recognize that if you use toilet paper, you must make an agreement to take down commercial logging (ala Weyerhauser). Similarly, if you drive a hummer you have made the commitment to take down the automobile industry.

Tom Brown Jr. does drive a hummer. So what? To reach and teach the number of people he does, he makes a thousand trips to the Pine Barrens every year. The Tracker School destroyed several suburbans because the sand kicked up into the engine. The Hummer company heard of this and said to Tom Brown, “We will give you a free hummer if you put your name on the side of it.” So Tom Brown used the hummer company to leverage expenses for the Tracker School. His hummer reads “The Tracker” on the side of it and the Tracker School saves money. This works like a good example of working with corporations to leverage anti-civilization mythology and actions.

People also get on Tom Brown for training the military. I can’t help but think about how animist philosophy permeates everything Tom does, and having him teach empathy to the military probably works in our favor. Though I would never do it, I don’t knock it. I wouldn’t think any less of Derrick Jensen if he did his stand-up tragedy routine at a USO show in Baghdad. We need it all, everywhere.

I agree to a certain extent, you need to use all the leverage you can get, and you don’t have to be completely pure to act against the system, but, at the same time, when the tools you are using are built by harming life, as in most industrial goods, than you have a problem. I guess in reality, this is more a moral problem than an actual one, the whole, personal killing one person as opposed to letting ten die through inaction, thing.

Another problem is that driving a hummer, especially if you do it as a promotion thing, continues to perpetuate the same automobile industry that you are trying to take down.

At the same time, if you are working to take down the automobile industry while driving a hummer, you may not be prepared when you succed. If you use industrial toilet paper, what are you going to use to wipe your butt when you win the battle against weherhauser? This isn’t a personal critique at all, I know that everyone here is doing their best to learn to live without civilized stuff, this is just soemthing that we have to keep in mind.

...everyone participates in capitalism and that we have no choice, and if you want to create a new choice, you'll need to leverage the weight of the capitalist economy against itself.

I’d have to say that I partially disagree, Scout. A friend of mine thought it would be a great idea if we could rally together a civil protest using credit cards. The idea was that if enough people applied for enough credit cards, say a 100,000 or even a million, maxed them out at once, then took the items they bought to those less fortunate, it would effectively cripple the credit card industries and help repair the economy. Unfortunately, as brave and noble as it sounds, it would only create massive inflation and then deflation, and the credit card companies would just issue more credit. It wouldn’t really change anything. So I don’t think using the economy against itself will work in a fiat economy. If the Federal Reserve can just print more bills, that’s what they’ll do, and we’ll suffer for it through higher prices.

The first step is to remove the Federal Reserve. In other words, convince congress through civil action that the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, which is merely a charter for a private corporation, should not be allowed to renew. This would in turn remove the IRS and both the printing of money and the collection of taxes would be returned to the congress.

What will this do to the economy? As long as the money that is printed is based on a stable marker, like gold, it will level the playing field. The currency doesn’t even have to be backed by gold. The entire reason the U.S. census exists was to fix the number of bills printed to the number of people in the population (they stopped doing that in 1913).

When the creation and control of money is put back into the hands of the people, we will have overcome an amazing hurtle to our liberation.

What you described (buying credit cards) was not what I meant.

There is no way that congress will ever dissolve the federal reserve. Ever. The federal reserve owns our government. Pure and simple. Unless they do it intentionally to create the “Amero” (currency for canada, mexico and the US) which means they would still put the same idea in place, only for a larger framework.

The point being that while I have to buy food at the store, I can eat that food while I teach myself how to grow/gather it myself. I’m leveraging the system to break free of it. I also leverage technology such as my laptop to encourage and inspire other people to break free of the system and to tear it down.

I think the question is (or perhaps one of the important ones); “What is the intent ?”
For example; using a computer, electricity, the internet, etc. and all that that implies.
What is the intent of the action - the decision - the strategy ?

For example, when a merchant would trade metal pots with some indigenous people still having access to their traditional “raw material” and knowledge for making them, were the people going to use them to make arrow heads (if they thought or knew they’d be more effective to fight off the occupant) or would they use them as pots and perhaps become dependant on them hence dependant on the invaders, therefore be fucked ?

Today, am I using “it” (whatever it may be) to take “it” (civilization) down ?
“Am I using it to take it down ?”…

Intent is important, but we can’t discount the actual effectiveness of our use of civilized goods. I might hope to do a lot of good writing in my blog, getting people to become slightly more aware of issues and ideas, but that might not happen. Maybe I’ll just be shouting in the dark to an empty theater (or another one of those sayings). Using it to successfully build a local group of interested individuals, on the other hand, can be a positive use, especially if we can form a ‘tribe’.