A Newcomer

Visions of the Rewilding Renaissance Grief & Praise
#1

Well hello. My name’s Nathan, and a couple days ago I stumbled upon this forum. I’ve always been somewhat against the way we run our lives in today’s modern civilization, and it’s only recently that I’ve begun to actually research my beliefs. From what I’ve read thus far, I would have to say that the closest match to my personal beliefs would be anarcho-primivitism. I’m still in the process of figuring out which aspects truly pertain to me, but at least I know I’m in the right ballpark.

Until recently, I had never actually sat down and thought about how I feel with regards to where my life is headed. Now that I have, I can say two things. First, I am extremely relieved that I’m not alone with my crazy ideals about molding my life based on centuries-old culture (at least in North America). Secondly, though I am overjoyed to see that there is a chance of bettering my future, I’m also terrified of the path that lies ahead.

As others would point out, I really DO want to “run off and live in the woods”. Lately, my depression has been getting worse. I just quit my job, and I honestly don’t believe I can start another. I can’t spend my days doing something that is as unimportant and pathetic as feeding into an economy and society that I don’t want to be a part of. The last week has been pretty difficult for me; I have shunned everyone I know, because they don’t have a clue where I’m coming from. All they see is the stereotypical depressed guy who should be on anti-depressants. It’s entirely sad that people think drugs are the answer to “curing” the fact that modern civilization is a joke.

I have had a couple people go so far as to tell me that, living in a capitalist society (I’m in Canada by the way), I just have to “suck it up and deal with it”. Again, it’s sad to see that people KNOW that our lives don’t work, but they succumb to the idea that we “have to do what we have to do” to earn our way through life. I do tend to wonder if I’m the only person who gets frustrated at things like the simple fact that junk food and soft drinks exist. Basically, the almighty dollar has pushed me into a corner against every other person who believes money is a positive thing. And that puts me up against a LOT of people.

What tears me apart is I know what I need to be happy, but I’m not sure it’s possible. I really do want to run off into the woods tomorrow, but how can I manage that? All land is owned; the best I can do is trek deep enough into the mountains and hope nobody finds me. Then there’s the fact that I am not rewilded - how am I supposed to survive without the proper skill set? Even if I could find someone to teach me, I don’t have the money to pay them to do so. This is one thing I have a hard time believing… there are people willing to teach the ways of non-capitalist survival, yet they charge money for their lessons. I guess that’s what happens when it is legally impossible to live for free in your country… even those who don’t believe in it have to pay their rent.

So, I no longer have a job. I can’t see myself being gainfully employed again anytime soon. I have my apartment until the end of July, at which point I will be homeless and quite literally on the streets. I am not the type who will roam the streets begging for change - I can’t even stand the idea. I would rather starve until rushed to hospital on an IV. I honestly believe I’m at the point where I need to get out of the city and into a natural environment. My spirit was not intended to be crowded with thousands of other people in a society full of inhumane humans.

Any advice, especially about the crazy idea of tucking myself away into a mountain without the knowledge necessary to sustain myself? Are there any settlement-type places where a person can simply move to and join a group of like-minded people? I’m interested in hearing how other people have managed not to go totally crazy trying to fulfil this near-impossible dream of living the natural life you were meant to live. Most importantly, is it physically possible (in North America) to truly segregate yourself from mainstream society and begin living the life of a primitivist? Does everything you do to survive wind up being illegal according to the authorities?

Sorry for such the long blurb… there’s just so much I could say at this point in my life. I tried to keep out most of the negative bashing of today’s world. :-\

#2

Nathan,

Thank you for sharing part of your story.

As others would point out, I really DO want to "run off and live in the woods". Lately, my depression has been getting worse. I just quit my job, and I honestly don't believe I can start another. I can't spend my days doing something that is as unimportant and pathetic as feeding into an economy and society that I don't want to be a part of. The last week has been pretty difficult for me; I have shunned everyone I know, because they don't have a clue where I'm coming from. All they see is the stereotypical depressed guy who should be on anti-depressants. It's entirely sad that people think drugs are the answer to "curing" the fact that modern civilization is a joke.

This sounds really tough. I understand where you’re coming from though, I think. I had similar feelings close to ten years ago now. For me it’s been a long and hard process trying to find a way of life that don’t produce feelings like this inside of me. But, I have to say the journey has definately been worth it.

Any advice, especially about the crazy idea of tucking myself away into a mountain without the knowledge necessary to sustain myself?

Yes. But before you try and make this idea a reality I highly recommend you read three books. The first one is Into the Wild, by Jon Krakauer.

Amazon.com
“God, he was a smart kid…” So why did Christopher McCandless trade a bright future–a college education, material comfort, uncommon ability and charm–for death by starvation in an abandoned bus in the woods of Alaska? This is the question that Jon Krakauer’s book tries to answer. While it doesn’t—cannot—answer the question with certainty, Into the Wild does shed considerable light along the way. Not only about McCandless’s “Alaskan odyssey,” but also the forces that drive people to drop out of society and test themselves in other ways. Krakauer quotes Wallace Stegner’s writing on a young man who similarly disappeared in the Utah desert in the 1930s: “At 18, in a dream, he saw himself … wandering through the romantic waste places of the world. No man with any of the juices of boyhood in him has forgotten those dreams.” Into the Wild shows that McCandless, while extreme, was hardly unique; the author makes the hermit into one of us, something McCandless himself could never pull off. By book’s end, McCandless isn’t merely a newspaper clipping, but a sympathetic, oddly magnetic personality. Whether he was “a courageous idealist, or a reckless idiot,” you won’t soon forget Christopher McCandless.

The second one is Ishmael, by Daniel Quinn (That’s if you haven’t read it already).

www.readishmael.com

And the third one is Beyond Civilization, by Daniel Quinn. DQ makes it abundantly clear in this book there are, and always have been ways of escaping wage slavery.

Beyond Civilization at Amazon

Most importantly, is it physically possible (in North America) to truly segregate yourself from mainstream society and begin living the life of a primitivist? Does everything you do to survive wind up being illegal according to the authorities?

I think these are important questions you’ve asked. RedWolfReturns started a thread over at Anthropik where you may in time see these questions answered. We will see.

http://forums.anthropik.com/viewtopic.php?id=1317

Good luck on your journey, Nathan.

Curt

#3

Hey Curt,

Thanks for the reply – and so quickly, too! The book suggestions look decent indeed, and I appreciate your mentioning them. I suppose I will need to renew my public library membership in order to take a look at those.

As for the whole running-into-the-woods ideal, I do not see myself as quite foolish enough to actually attempt such a feat. Not anytime soon anyway. I want to improve the way I live my life, not cut it short by getting in over my head. Current civilization simply delivers itself with too many negative aspects; I can’t see myself remaining happy and functional here. How does one force oneself to participate in the monetary economy, when that economy stands against every personal belief and value you hold?

I find myself interested in what methods Beyond Civilization gives as ways in which to escape wage slavery. My first thought wanders to shelter and how one can remain protected from the elements. I do not want to physically live on the streets, I do not want to work for rent, and I do not want to find someone willing to let me leech off their home. Not one of these options provide an appealing path, but I fear the inevitable compromise which may force itself upon me.

Aside from monetary issues, I believe my biggest problem at the moment remains the issue of finding like-minded people. Having a forum such as this provides a good start and opens some doors to new ideas and discussion, but I also need to locate some flesh-and-blood people to hang out with. It becomes depressing pretty damn quick, this business of not having a single friend who understands you or the foundation of your beliefs.

Do the majority of you reside in the same state? Tell me where relocation will guide me. :smiley:

P.S.: After several edits, I believe I have succeeded in managing to properly write this reply in decent E-Prime.

#4

Hey rix can you fix this thread?

Hey Yexxie,

I know just how you feel! When I was 16 I read Ishmael and began to understand that civilization was totally fucked up. I dropped out of high school and ran off to the woods. I was lucky in that I had a few friends who did the same. I can’t imagine how hard it would have been to go alone! I reccomend sniffing out some primitive types in your area. You know they’re there, they may just be hard to find. Hone your tracking skills and find them! Also, you know you can do the Willing Workers on Organic Farms (WWOOF) and work/trade/learn about organic farming. Not exactly the hunter-gatherer approach, but if you get in with one of the perma-culture farms that’s basically what they’re trying to get to.

Thank you for feeling comfortable about sharing your feelings of grief here. I think most of us have felt and still feel as you do from time to time. I know I do. You are not alone in your feelings.

#5
Hey rix can you fix this thread?

Sorry, scout. I’m not seeing what you’re seeing. Maybe the really long url is pushing the margins. I’ll fix that and see if it does anything for your view.

#6

hang in there, yexxle. you are definitely not alone in your feelings. i think we all freaked out when we first caught wind that life didn’t have to be this shitty–and that outside of civilization, it wasn’t this shitty.

willem posted an interesting comment in another thread here about the stages one tends to go through when they wake up to these ideas.

i love the books curt mentioned. ishmael was definitely the beginning for me–and a lot of people on these boards, from what i can tell. into the wild, i think is important because it shows a good example of what can happen to even a smart individual under the wrong circumstances.

I find myself interested in what methods Beyond Civilization gives as ways in which to escape wage slavery.

personally, i was a little disappointed by beyond civilization–mostly because i wanted quinn to tell me exactly what to do, and he never would. which of course, is ridiculous. no one can tell anyone else how to buck the civilization system. his ideas are interesting, but i don’t think they’re what you’re expecting. the book is not about how to make it living in the woods. it’s about how to not be a wage-slave. it’s great for how it opens your mind to different possibilities, but don’t expect it to be a field guide for survival in the wilderness–because it’s nothing like that.

This is one thing I have a hard time believing... there are people willing to teach the ways of non-capitalist survival, yet they charge money for their lessons. I guess that's what happens when it is legally impossible to live for free in your country... even those who don't believe in it have to pay their rent.

i’m right there with you, pal. which is why i’m so glad scout started this site. so we can pool our ideas in a free and open forum that people don’t have to pay to take part in.

Do the majority of you reside in the same state? Tell me where relocation will guide me.

there seems to be a lot going on in portland, including Rewild Camp Portland 2007. but outside of that, most of us are pretty scattered–globally, even.

what part of canada do you live in?

#7
Hey Yexxie
That sounds cute, "yexx[b]i[/b]e". It spells itself "yexx[b]l[/b]e". ;)
Thank you for feeling comfortable about sharing your feelings of grief here. I think most of us have felt and still feel as you do from time to time. I know I do. You are not alone in your feelings.
You know, at first I did not feel much like posting what seems pure complaining. Then I decided that therein lies a problem -- too many people simply hide their emotions and opinions about how the world doesn't work well. The result shows itself as a bunch of unhappy people who put on a happy face for the rest of the world. I'd rather go through a few stages full of turmoiling emotions in order to arrive in a place where I can truly find myself content.
When I was 16 I read Ishmael and began to understand that civilization was totally fucked up.
ishmael was definitely the beginning for me--and a lot of people on these boards, from what i can tell.
Well then, I believe I have the title of the first book I will read. Thanks again for the suggestion. :)
I dropped out of high school and ran off to the woods.
I very nearly made it through high school; I dropped out in my last year. I knew it had something to do with the way school directed me to lead my life, and it's only taken this 4-5 years to figure out why. The damn school hadn't taught me the hunter-gatherer skills I yearned to learn! :D
Also, you know you can do the Willing Workers on Organic Farms (WWOOF) and work/trade/learn about organic farming.
No way! I have never heard of this before. Perusing [url=http://www.wwoof.ca/canada/content/start.html]the WWOOF Canada site[/url] has me interested. There exist 41 hosts in my province, many of which have horses (I really do enjoy horseback riding). Luckily (yes, thanks to civ), there exists a place in my city where I can go pick up the booklet of hosts directly rather than waiting for it to arrive by post. I will most definitely start with this if possible. Thank you so much for letting me know about this organization.
which is why i'm so glad scout started this site. so we can pool our ideas in a free and open forum that people don't have to pay to take part in.
I most definitely appreciate the fact this forum exists. So far it's made itself my primary resource, not to mention a great place to communicate with others who have gone through and continue to go through the same motions.
what part of canada do you live in?
Edmonton, Alberta ([url=http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=edmonton,+alberta&ie=UTF8&z=10&iwloc=addr&om=1]Google Map link[/url])
#8
Well then, I believe I have the title of the first book I will read. Thanks again for the suggestion.

You’re welcome!

And another thing that I think is worth mentioning is the effect that reading Ishmael has had on some people. This quote by Ishmael explains this occasional effect with great clarity, “In other words, if you take this educational journey with me, you’re going to find yourself alienated from the people around you–friends, family, past associates, and so on.”

ON EDIT: From what I’ve gathered from your posts so far, I suggest that you also check out Ran Prieur’s writings on how to drop out, Nathan.

http://ranprieur.com/essays/dropout.html

Good luck.

Curt

#9

Good job on the edit, Huby. Upon reading the first section of your
reply, the first reaction reared itself in my mind: “My alienation has
already pushed me away from the people around me!”. Looks like I have more reading to attend to. Thankfully I have no plans or responsibilities for the next several weeks. :slight_smile:

[hr]
E-prime note:
Thinking of the phrase “my first reaction was”, and upon
reflecting on a way to E-prime it, I realized it very simple to
personify the noun (the reaction that rears itself). Just for fun, I
also changed the line “I’m already alienated from…” to “My
alienation has already pushed me away from…”. I believe
personification would work in many (most? all?) such scenarios, but it
may become far too strange a read for most people (including myself). Not to mention how it tends to lengthen the sentence by adding many unnecessary words.

#10

[quote=“yexxle, post:9, topic:241”]Just for fun, I
also changed the line “I’m already alienated from…” to “My
alienation has already pushed me away from…”. I believe
personification would work in many (most? all?) such scenarios, but it
may become far too strange a read for most people (including myself). Not to mention how it tends to lengthen the sentence by adding many unnecessary words.[/quote]

I strongly suggest that the “too many extra words” phenomenon, as regards e-prime, just points to a lack of skill. I often use LESS words because of e-prime. Think about it. Constant writing in the “active’” voice, as opposed to the “passive” voice, makes it inevitable.

I think I hijacked this thread a bit. Back to your regularly scheduled rewilding.

#11

First Attempt:
I agree entirely; ultimately, I imagine language could stand to use less clutter. The majority of words we use do nothing more than add filler.

Second Attempt:
Agreed. Language needs less clutter, less filler.

Third Attempt
Yes. Language messy.

I suppose this really doesn’t belong in this forum… :slight_smile:

#12

Welcome friend. ;D

#13

I’m tired of primitivists mentioning Christopher McCandless as a way to confirm that one can not live alone in the wilds or “run off to the woods”. McCandless was one single case of an idiot who was unprepared and inexperienced to live in the wild. It’s made to sound that this will be the fate of anyone who attempts it.

Living alone in the woods may not be the ideal, considering its non-tribal nature, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I personally know people who have lived alone in the wilderness, and have read of other people doing the same. All these people were prepared and experienced and that’s all it really takes.

#14
I'm tired of primitivists mentioning Christopher McCandless as a way to confirm that one can not live alone in the wilds or "run off to the woods". McCandless was one single case of an idiot who was unprepared and inexperienced to live in the wild. It's made to sound that this will be the fate of anyone who attempts it.

Living alone in the woods may not be the ideal, considering its non-tribal nature, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I personally know people who have lived alone in the wilderness, and have read of other people doing the same. All these people were prepared and experienced and that’s all it really takes.

Well, since I mentioned Into the Wild I feel I should respond to this. And I want to make clear that I’m not looking to argue here.

First of all, I don’t see myself as a primitivist. Secondly, given the cultural conditioning that most of us have experienced since birth it doesn’t hurt to throw the story about Christopher McCandless out there for some one to consider before taking off to survive in the wilderness, atleast that’s how I feel about it.

Take care,

Curt

#15

i don’t think either curt or i were saying that you can’t live alone in the woods. nor were we presenting McCandless’s case as proof that you can’t live alone in the woods.

I’ll quote what I said above, emphasizing the statements necessary to convey my feelings on the subject more distinctly:

i love the books curt mentioned. ishmael was definitely the beginning for me--and a lot of people on these boards, from what i can tell. into the wild, i think is important because it shows a good example of what [b]can happen[/b] to even a smart individual [b]under the wrong circumstances.[/b]

Not that it’s impossible, but that when you’re on your own, you only have yourself to fall back on. Make a mistake, and you have no help to turn to. McCandless serves as a good example of that kind of situation.

I personally know people who have lived alone in the wilderness, and have read of other people doing the same.

I would love to see more examples of people who do make it work for themselves, as the only examples I have to go off of are the so-called failures. Even the ones that don’t die on their own, have not been able to stay “primitive”. Eustace Conway’s Turtle Island Preserve has been slowly creeping closer and closer to the industrial age. Brent Ladd gave up on living in the wild to become a water quality specialist at Purdue.

I recommend reading Jason Godesky’s Where Have All the Savages Gone? at the Anthropik Network for a good summary of the difficulties of living primitively in the current cultural climate.

#16

Here’s an example of a guy that was able to live on his own in the wilderness for 20 years, apparently.

Adirondack Bushman Captured After 20 years in the Woods

#17

Hey yexxle,
Great post. I think we all feel your pain. Many of us on here want to “run away and live in the woods.” And almost none of us want to do it entirely alone, it’s just that we kind of have to. If only we all agreed on a place to live. We could go in on a bit of land together. It would be like that movie The Village except prehistorically instead of historically oriented, haha. These links are for everyone:

I know of one place you can live with other green anarchists: http://www.wildroots.org/ in North Carolina.

Then there were some people looking to start a thing in Alaska. Don’t know what happened to that. This is the closest link I could find is http://rtc.revolt.org/reclaim_rewild. The original website is gone.

If you don’t want to beg but can’t support yourself in wilder ways I would suggest dumpster diving and petty chain store theft ala Evasion, http://www.crimethinc.com/a/evasion/index2.html.

On the subject of living alone in the wilderness here is a very interesting article called Thirty Years in the Jungle! Could you do it?:
http://www.primitiveways.com/jungle_30_years.html

#18

But is running away to live in the woods the answer? Isn’t it just delaying the inevitable? Can you really escape the long arm of civilization?

Apparently the Adriondack Bushman couldn’t. The lesson is summed up by one editorial from the story:

“But the Beaver Pond Hermit case is a clear signal that if you choose to live outside the boundaries of mainstream society, you may find yourself a target for the police state.”

In other words, freedom and difference will not be tolerated.

To me, it’s too easy to just “run away” from all our problems. Better to stay and fight. Help to actually stop civilization, instead of just scurrying away in the bushes in an attempt to hide from it.

#19

[quote=“Paleo Boy, post:18, topic:241”]But is running away to live in the woods the answer? Isn’t it just delaying the inevitable? Can you really escape the long arm of civilization?

Apparently the Adriondack Bushman couldn’t. The lesson is summed up by one editorial from the story:

“But the Beaver Pond Hermit case is a clear signal that if you choose to live outside the boundaries of mainstream society, you may find yourself a target for the police state.”

In other words, freedom and difference will not be tolerated.

To me, it’s too easy to just “run away” from all our problems. Better to stay and fight. Help to actually stop civilization, instead of just scurrying away in the bushes in an attempt to hide from it.[/quote]

If people stay, what can they do? Seems futile.

I rather enjoy my life in freedom taking risks after all you only have one life.

#20
To me, it's too easy to just "run away" from all our problems. Better to stay and fight. Help to actually stop civilization, instead of just scurrying away in the bushes in an attempt to hide from it.

Oh yeah, stop civilization huh? Good fucking luck. What did you have in mind for stopping civilization? What do you plan to do? What are you doing NOW to stop civilization? There seems to be nothing anyone can do to stop civilization. But it will collapse itself. That’s inevitable.

You criticize people who want to do something great and actually practice what we all preach by living in the wilderness, while you justify yourself for not wanting to do this by claiming it’s too easy and does no good. You even indicated they were cowards when you said “scurrying away in the bushes to hide”. Maybe they’re just people who are sick of their meaningless lives in civilization. Maybe they just want to be happier and healthier in the wilds. They won’t be able to escape civilization entirely, but it’s the best they can do. They’re trying. What are YOU doing?