American Dao

Regenerative Culture Spiritual Technology
#1

I’ve been lucky enough through my studies of Chinese medicine and Chinese Internal Martial Arts to have met and encountered a few genuine Daoshi (Daoist teacher or masters in a specific lineage), and I’m curious about reviving the topic started early between the connections between Daoism and post-collapse and anti-civ. It is very clear that Daoism has some very strong shamanistic elements and anti-civ tendency and yet it also has temples in modern Chinese cities to this very day. It seems to have a very paradoxical relationship with agriculture, civilization, and government. On the one hand it derides these things, but on the other it seems to blend and flow with them as being expressions of the larger Dao. Also, how do we reconcile the idea of communities of self-sufficient Daoist monks and nuns living in the mountains in a very anti-civ way with Daoist priests serving the emperor?

Is there a way of having an American Dao, embracing the philosophy and practices in modern America? And is this important at this moment in history (peak oil, eminent collapse, return to small societies?)?

#2

Good question.

I think that not only is it possible but necessary. Rewilding so often feels like bridging two conflicting ways of life. In the middle you have to find some way to accept their co-existence.

#3

Absolutely we can do that. My rewilding leads me to learn from other wisdom traditions to renew my own, and the Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tze, and such help me out from time to time.

As far as the paradox of institutionalized taoism (almost like saying ‘hierarchical anarchy’)…look no further than the state’s need to “nationalize” threatening branches of belief. Japanese Emperors did this with Shinto, creating written canonical texts, just like the Chinese did with Taoism. How do you defang the power of a folk practice? Co-opt it! Buddhists gobbled up Kwannon/Kwan Yin, an Earth Goddess figure that arose in ancient China. Hierarchy and institutions can never keep up with the vitality of folk life (much like the record industry can’t create art with soul, it has to hunt the folk hinterlands to find it, so it can then commericalize it).

Of course, we can do this right back - we can deinstitutionalize them just like with our health care, how we get our food, our private economy, etc.

#4

Pathfinder,

Which elements are you talking about? Modern religious Daoism? Philosophical Daoism? What about the streams of magical practice? Seems like a really big chunk of stuff to try to adapt to primitivism, without some further refinement.

#5

Willem the last part of your response, the part about deinstitutionalizing, healthcare, food, private economy, caught my attention.Could you say more about this topic not necessarily in relation to Dao.Not meaning to derail the Dao train of thought.

#6

When I spoke of Daoism, I was trying to speak of the whole enchilada including ancient Immortal hermits, Daoist village priests, the sages who wrote the Daodejing and the Chuang-tzu, and the current remnants of monks and nuns still following the Way in the post-communist strange world of modern China.

This might not clarify, it might obfuscate the issue, but I think that is often what happens when you try and define Daoism.

#7

If we can’t define “Taoism,” maybe talk of the Tao would serve us better if we spoke in the context of certain Taoist writings that spoke to us. I really like the Tao Te Ching for example, and dig a good deal of Chuang Tzu. That informs my understanding of the Tao more than anything. From those words a few words come to word concerning the Tao: Irreverent, Irretrievable, Meandering, Slow, Centered, Succession.

#8

I don’t know that much about Daoism in general, and I think mainly I’m biased by having recently taking a class on Daoist mysticism that involved energy healing and magical practices, but I think those activities flow easily into shamanistic/animistic worldviews and so are very compatible, IF you’re able to bridge the cultural and conceptual gaps. The use of qi, sound, minerals, plants, animals, climate, and so forth for healing and achieving effects is very aligned with a low-tech, nature-attuned way of life.

#9

Exactly! I think that Daoist practice may offer a whole different kind of technology that is completely low-tech and based on understanding of energetic aspects of plants, animals, humans, etc. After all, acupuncture, Qi healing, and Chinese medicinal substances are highly influenced by Daoist views and practices and are all very low-tech and viable. In some ways, they are superior to our current medical system especially at addressing chronic illness.

#10

So then the question becomes, what, specifically, might be a good entry point? Especially since masters overflowing with Daoist skills are not exactly converging on primitivist America.

I’m curious, what’s your background and experience with Daoist martial arts and medicine?

#11

My personal experience is that I’m an acupuncturist, have studies Chinese herbal medicine, and other branches of Chinese medicine (which really everybody studies when they go to acupuncture school), and I’m lucky enough to have had the same Taiji/Bagua/Qigong teacher for over 10 years. He is a lineage holder in both a Taiji lineage and in a Daoist lineage. So, I consider myself really lucky.

However, as for anyone entering into this way of looking at things, practicing Qigong is a really great start for transforming our understanding of our energy and how the plants, animals, trees, etc. have different energetic qualities. Also, Chinese herbal medicine (which really includes plants, animals, and mineral substances) is a great place for people to dive into this. It’s really important for people to realize that 1/3 to 1/2 of the Chinese pharmacopeia grows wild in this country. I think that the energetic approach to healing, foods, and medicines is one way for people to incorporate a Daoist aspect to their rewilding approaches.

#12

Yeah, the energetics and both the spirituality and the sustainability of it all are some of the main reasons that I got into the medicine. It seems like a bit of a rough cultural shift to make though, because it does require some pretty different ways of thinking and talking about things. Climatic factors as actually having to do with health in very specific and even acute ways? Even among some primitivists, could be a tough sell depending on where they’re coming from.

#13

I don’t know, there are some pretty fascinating books out that show how the classic Chinese view of illness is very similar to other ancient forms of health and healing. One that comes to mind is called, “Blood in the Wind”. I believe it explores the connections between Mayan medicine and Chinese medicine. When I lived in Tucson and had some contacts with people who had been exposed to Mexican folk medicine using remedios, the vocabulary was pretty similar to the concepts of Daoism and Chinese Medicine. Remedios were composed of plants that were hot or cold and had different flavors. One student I had there told of a family remedy for facial skin issues (acne and acne scars) that involved grinding peal, soaking it in lemon juice and putting it under the full moon to enhance it’s cooling powers. That might not sound like modern Chinese herbal medicine, but it sure as hell sounds like something an ancient Daoist might suggest someone do for the same problem.

#14

the only core concepts i’ve really spent any time understanding from Taoism are the uncarved block & effortless action (wu wei).

i admit, those concepts have had a large impact on how i approach situations/activities, including rewilding.

#15

Yeah, Urban Scout mentioned that book a while back, I still haven’t gotten around to looking at it but it looks interesting.

I’m curious whether there are any textual sources of inspiration that would be particularly appropriate for primitivism. I haven’t done any extensive reading of Daoist sources.

I do know that I’m not really interested in the modern exoteric religious forms of Daoism. The esoteric mystical/magical ones seem more relevant but also less accessible and more difficult to develop even when made accessible.

So the most appropriate common entry point looks like it would be a textual and/or philosophical basis.

#16

The uncarved block and effortless action from the Daodejing and other Daoist texts are a great entry point for anyone into Daoism. They seem to be particularly relevant for anarcho-primitivists and rewilding folks in that effortless action seems to be the underlying principle of a successful hunter-gatherer culture and that are modern civilization is so against effortless action. We seem to be stuck in effortful action all the time.

As for other sources, over the last few years there have been more and more books on tales of the Daoist Immortals. These are stories of irreverent sages and wanderers who disdained agriculture and civilization and lived in the mountains eating wild medicinal herbs and practicing being one with the Dao. The stories are funny, interesting, and definitely point to a different way of being than the one our society tries to cram down our throats. These stories might be another way for people to explore Daoism if they aren’t in for the paradoxical poetry of the Daodejing.

#17

I was working on some hides the other day and listening to CBC radio and there was a story about these Daoist monks who taught through laughter.

One of them died and he left instructions that he wanted to be cremated as is. No new clothes or washing of his body.
Being respectful of his wishes the villagers placed his body on the pyre and lit it. As the flames started to burn his clothes they realized his pockets were full of firecrackers.

#18

Pathfinder, whats your take on The Tao of Pooh and Te of Piglet books?

I know they are simple, but personally I have found them to be a great introduction to Tao. Again a good intro to the concepts of uncarved block and effortless action.

If I had to come down to it, I would say in my philosophy I am a Daoist and if their is a “religion” for me it is the animistic view of the world. They are very complementary.

Taoism is a potent philosophy to carry into the world through the rewilding process. I have not found much use personally for religious Daoism, though. What benefit do you find religious Daoism can bring to us rewilders?

#19

I think that the Tao of Pooh and Te of Piglet are great introductions for folks to Daoism. A lot of core philosophical concepts such as the uncarved block and effortless action are explored in the books in a manner which most folks can relate to. They also serve as a jumping off point into other books like the Daodejing and Chuangtzu.

As for religious Taoism, my current view is that in America there is a lot of misunderstanding around what this is. One way of looking at religious Daoism is that it is the combination of the philosophy of the Daodejing and Chuangtzu and other texts combined with the animistic worldview of ancient Chinese shamans to create powerful vibrant system of ritual and ceremony that is done to help all beings be one with the Dao. It is very, very similar to Shinto in this way and more and more there are starting to be scholarly works that compare the two as parallel traditons.

As for what this means for rewilding in America in 2008, I’m not entirely sure. Part of the reason I started this thread.

#20

I have read a bit on religious Daoism, and can definitely see the similarity to Shinto. Although it tends be a pragmatic religion, I have not found much in it that I can use in rewilding. Yet, I can see why and how it might make sense in Chinese culture.

Though, I do tend to have a streak of shunning religious dogma.

Perhaps we can discuss the uncarved block and effortless action here a little bit so that folks who are unfamiliar with the concepts can make sense of what we are saying.

The concepts of yin/yang tend to be familiar to most people. They are useful to really understand, even though they might sound so basic. They are representations of all the complementary forces and manifestations in the world, such as: dark and light, male and female, hard and flexible, ugly and beautiful, and so on. I often hear people say that they are opposites, but I think to say this is to miss something of their inherent unity. In western thought, we tend to think of things such as beauty or ugliness as separate.

But can one exist without the other?

If everyone was beautiful, how would you know it if there was nothing to contrast it too? If everyone was tall, how would you know without someone short to contrast that too?

In the yin/yang concept is also the knowledge of what happens when we run to extremes. Extremes do not last long. An intense storm is short lived. Those people who run on full-throttle all the time are likely to die young. In THE TAO OF POOH, Hoff calls people who act this way “busy backsons.” Another wards, they are always busy and will be back soon. They are never still or present, but always pursuing the greener grass on the other side of the fence. Extreme sports junkies are a classic example of a busy backson.

By the way, heyvictor I loved your story of the fire-crackers in the pocket! Made me laugh out loud. That’s the way I want to be sent off!