I’ve never gone to a “real” university, just community college. My experience is that most people care more about grades than learning. They just want to get the piece of paper so they can make more money at their jobs.
The reason I want to go to university is so that I will be taken seriously by wider society.
I’ve found that if you read a lot of books and talk like an educated person, people just assume that you have a university degree.
It’s a mixed bag for me. In college I unlearned a lot from high school, but a lot of things that I “learned” in college I’m finding I have to unlearn as I rewild. And in college, people generally weren’t all that interested in participating with nature, even the environmentalists (and there were a lot of those in my college). In high school there were people all around me who liked to fish and hunt and have that kind of direct experience, even though they weren’t all that interested in the environmental movement.
Starfish, I have a different experience of higher education. There were three main types of students at my college: those who didn’t care about learning, those who cared about grades AND learning, and those who cared about learning, grades be damned. Percentage-wise, I’d say it ran about 10%-65%-25% respectively.
I understand that it’s hard to believe that 90% of my college classmates cared about learning, and the only explanation I can offer is that this particular college is an exceptionally rare specimen. It had very high academic standards, and it was small, with lots of interpersonal academic exchanges between professors and students (there was no graduate program; it was a “teaching college”). In fact there was an exact total of ONE prof who asked the students to call him “Professor So-and-so” and not by his first name, and (for that and many, many other reasons) it was unanimously agreed that he was a pompous jerk.
Some of my college profs I still consider good friends. When I was experiencing emotional/psychological chaos my senior year of college (four years ago), I even went to one of them to get things off my chest. She listened with care and helped me decide to find short-term counseling, and she took it upon herself to check in with me and ask me how I was doing. A great teacher, friend, and mentor in my life.
So speaking from my experiences, I happen to agree with Jason that higher education can provide a great milieu for learning how to think for yourself and value your capacity to think. As rewilders I think we can all appreciate the significance of context. 
“Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence.”
-Robert Frost
Starfish, I agree, but sounding smart usually isn’t enough to persuade parents to allow you to educate their children or to allow you to be a city planner.
Oh, so I read more of this thread, and I wanted to respond to Billy’s original question.
Well, personally I discovered leaving civilization as a goal in and of itself after I finished college.
Some of the people here who are currently students might have begun school before deciding that they want to rewild.
Everybody has to choose how they will rewild, which includes how they will move forward from their present situation: how they will participate in the civilized world while they are working on rewilding, whether it’s choosing not to go to school and going straight into the workforce or going to school to do something more specialized in the workforce.
I can see myself going back to school and getting a degree in psychology, becoming a therapist, and eventually leaving that role as I step further into rewilding (however, it would certainly make the rewilding process longer). Both of those goals would be worthwhile to me. I mean, if I have to engage with civ for the time being, I should make it work for me as best I can, right? And I imagine if I live a very frugal lifestyle, I can get those loans paid off faster. Once the loans are paid off, I can start taking fewer clients (or patients, depending on how you look at it) and spend MORE of my time rewilding. I can eventually phase the therapy work out altogether.
That’s all assuming that I have the time. Civ could crash quickly. But then again, a lot of things could happen. I could cross the street this afternoon and get hit by a car.
Sigh, I haven’t really worked out my long-term goals yet, and all I know so far is that leaving civ for rewilding is the ultimate goal.
Heyvic.,
I know what you mean, while at the same time lately I’ve thought a lot about going for a doctorate.
Actually, though it requires a higher degree of education, jazz is actually a very free and communal form of music. So yeah, jazz music is much less hierarchical and restrictive than say, Bach. It’s a hell of a lot easier to get a group of your friends to pick a standard tune and just jam for 20 minutes than it is to organize a chamber quartet. Also, through soloing, it’s a very individually expressive medium.
So is it rewilding? Sort of. But specially hammered brass and wooden reeds from the Andes mountains (yes, sax players actually have those) are not long for this world. So I have to figure out new ways of getting that spirit into a more rewilded context.
Yes, I guess I have more the spirit of jazz in mind than the specific instruments one usually plays. I see jazz as an excellent way to rewild–it already moves Western music in concert with wild African music, so it makes an excellent bridge.
I’ve started thinking of it this way, too. Artists are (in)famous for looking at the world from the outside in. I think it’d be easy to convince an artist of the merits of rewilding. Seems as though you’re already convinced. 
Do you need a high degree of education to play jazz? As one who has played beginning level jazz piano, I know there’s a lot to learn if you want to play it well. But you can learn jazz from experience, with other musicians, without a formal course of study.
Of course if you want to teach, that’s a different story. 8) (<— hepcat sunglasses ;))
Speaking of wild African music, the banjo is an adaptation of an African tribal instrument. So American folk/bluegrass music is also a possible bridge for rewilding.
[quote=“BlueHeron, post:21, topic:818”][quote author=Django link=topic=869.msg9658#msg9658 date=1208298193]
art (an inherently non-civilized pastime).
[/quote]
I’ve started thinking of it this way, too. Artists are (in)famous for looking at the world from the outside in. I think it’d be easy to convince an artist of the merits of rewilding. Seems as though you’re already convinced.
Do you need a high degree of education to play jazz? As one who has played beginning level jazz piano, I know there’s a lot to learn if you want to play it well. But you can learn jazz from experience, with other musicians, without a formal course of study.
Of course if you want to teach, that’s a different story. 8) (<— hepcat sunglasses ;))
Speaking of wild African music, the banjo is an adaptation of an African tribal instrument. So American folk/bluegrass music is also a possible bridge for rewilding.[/quote]
It depends. The idea of getting a college degree in jazz music would have been considered absurd a few decades ago. Some of the greats didn’t even attend college at all. A crucial part of jazz education is great players teaching other players on a personal basis.
The concept of teaching jazz music is abstract. You can teach the theory, melodic passages that sound good, resolution, appropriate rhythmic patterns, etc. but at the end of the day, the teacher wants to get the YOU out of your playing. Jazz as a form of music and as an art form is a matter of speaking the language of jazz. But like Shakespeare is different than Joyce is different than e.e. cummings is different Chuck Palinhuik, nobody is going to speak the same language the same way.
Jason, you’re actually dead on. My interpretation of jazz musicians from the 1950’s on is that they were (and are) the most dangerous artists alive: people with the musical knowledge and expertise of classical musicians with the wild, sexual, natural and beautiful creative urge of folk musicians.
[quote=“Django, post:22, topic:818”][quote author=BlueHeron link=topic=869.msg9699#msg9699 date=1208396805]
Do you need a high degree of education to play jazz? As one who has played beginning level jazz piano, I know there’s a lot to learn if you want to play it well. But you can learn jazz from experience, with other musicians, without a formal course of study.
[/quote]
It depends. The idea of getting a college degree in jazz music would have been considered absurd a few decades ago. Some of the greats didn’t even attend college at all. A crucial part of jazz education is great players teaching other players on a personal basis.[/quote]
That was a rhetorical question (see above), but thanks for elaborating anyway!
Sorry Matt, I guess I did not understand what you meant about people taking you seriously.
That’s cool starfish, this format can be annoying sometimes.
[quote=“Neighbor Scout, post:18, topic:818”]Heyvic.,
I know what you mean, while at the same time lately I’ve thought a lot about going for a doctorate. [/quote]
Neighbor Scout,
What field would you get your doctorate in?
There are some things that I want to get done, now that I am here. Since I am born into this society, i need at least someone who can teach me primitive skills. NOt the basic ones, but theharder ones such as medical care etc. I lack those skills, at least its not enough to support myslef. Also I would very much like to get a group pf people if i were to leave society behind, its easier that way, since some of us have skills others dont etc.
And once i go i have no plan to return, so that would mean I like a lot of other people are waiting for the right girl as well. (Hint to all the girls on this forum :p)
-Tj
I went to community college before I knew about re-wilding and just wanted to get a “good job”. I dropped out when I read Daniel Quinn’s work because that style of learning (read-regurgitate-forget) didn’t work for me. My grades were awful because I spent most of my time in school trying to learn, not memorise things so I could pass a test.
I’m trying to get into a university right now because they actually have some rewilding programs and seminars. They have this “Wild by Nature” class that I want to take simply because I want to learn basketry. http://wildbynature.org/environ.html <-- I could probably figure out a way to do this on my own (I’ve been un-universitying myself since I dropped out) but this university also has a few other things I’m interested in and I figure it’s easier to be an official student than to pay $400 for one class. They also have the Sierra Institute ( http://www.humboldt.edu/~sierra/application.html ) which looks like fun.
But mainly, I’ve had a hard time trying to get a paying job and my family is very frustrated with me for not “doing something” so they’re pushing me to “go back” to school. Sigh. They’re footing the bill, so I don’t care. I tried to explain rewilding and unlearning to them, but they just don’t get it.
So that’s why I’m going to university.
Hi, this is my first post here on this forum. I finish university in a week, I should be studying but I am procrastinating! I studied Biology and Ecology double major and I can honestly say I’ve learnt ALOT about nature, not just the nitty gritty details of genetics, cell biology etc. but broad concepts, ideas, trends in ecology. there are so many misconceptions out there about nature and evolution.
My choice now is, do i do an honours/research year where i get to hopefully work on the reintroduction of locally extinct species, or work/save and drop out/rewild or start a career in conservation. your input is welcome!
Congrats on your impending graduation, Ulverston!
I’d say it sounds interesting what you’re studying, but I can never actually get into biology the way it’s taught in schools. My brother’s finishing up with a bio degree right now, and from what he says there’s a lot of busy work. But hey, you seem to like it. Maybe you’ll be able to illuminate for us the pluses and minuses to the civilized approach to studying life?
I just wrote something to ask you to introduce yourself, and then you did already! Guess I don’t get to don my shiny new moderator cap yet. 
I went into university because I wanted to save the world, Quinn style, but I realized I was clueless about how to do that or if Quinn was even right. I figured that university had access to the information I wanted, so I went there. A difference I noticed between me and my fellows in the university is that I had a goal in being there beyond getting the degree: I wanted information. While I did the course work, I ended up building up my understanding of culture, people, and the world around the core desire I had for the future; I didn’t just sit there and passively receive the wisdom of ages.
Admittedly, I forgot myself a couple of times, but when I remembered who I was I just had to go back through and reweave what I had learned so that it was in the context of my desire. Its like suddenly realizing that you are breathing and wondering how you forgot that fact.
When I leave the university in the spring (or summer at the latest) I will have a Masters of Arts in Socio-Cultural Anthropology with an emphasis on agricultural anthropology and a certificate in Applied Anthropology and a certificate in Geographic Information Systems. While that is a mouthful for me to say, let alone type, it doesn’t reflect what I learned, what I know, and what I can do. Which is probably the best blessing of Anthropology as a degree course: you don’t fit into a neat slot like an engineer or even a writer would.
What have I learned that matters to rewilding? I’ve learned that while vast amounts of information exists in civilization, that it is largely valueless unless put in context and interpreted. I’ve learned how to find a lot of that information, and learned that I -can- put it in a different context than it was originally framed for. I’ve learned to look at a little picture without loosing my view of a larger picture. I’ve learned that people who can really command information are arguably as powerful as people who have authority ascribed to them by a degree, and that these people are all too often very different from one another.
Overall, I think my university stay has empowered and clarified what I say to people who do not already agree with me about the same topics addressed on this forum.
I decided early on that im not going to university and Im 99% sure I wont.
My goal is to rewild to the best of my ability, though I may only live 50
percent self sufficient, and choose a halfway point between moderen and primitive living. I want to know more Of what its like and what it means to be feral and at least catch a broader glimpse of what its like to be wild.
I dont think I can find the pure essence of that within four brick walls with florescent lights overhead, compared to a forest with the sun overhead.
Dont mean to sound like im bashing anyone, I like hanging around universitys because they usually have people that are aware of the things I can relate to, and its a good place to share your knowledge as a rewilder,or to sit and listen to an anthropology lecture.
:-[ I’m getting really depressed, anxious, and frustrated. I just made my fourth attempt at going back to community college this semester. I’m 27, and this is my first time back to school in five years. I’m just taking general liberal arts classes, with vague plans of going to a university to study anthropology, wildlife, or environmental studies (or something to do with rewilding) in hopes of becoming a legit teacher or something.
But I seem to suck at staying focused and doing the work that school requires. No matter how good a student I tell myself I’m going to be, I always end up procrastinating when it comes to schoolwork. I don’t think I’m particularily dumb, although I’m sure if I went to a psychiatrist I’d be quickly diagnosed with ADD or some other learning defecit. And I definitely don’t want to take drugs to get through school, and I can’t afford therapy. Maybe I’m just lazy, and too coddled by the instant gratification I get from other things this culture provides. Anybody else feel/worry about these things?
It’s coming to the end of the semester and It’s looking like I most certainly won’t finish a paper which is due in two days, causing me to fail yet another class. I want to succeed, but not enough,apparently. I’m beginning to think that this path is just not for me. I consider myself pretty good at reading, listening, and understanding concepts, but when it comes to regurgitating what I’ve learned in a useful form (whether written or oral)… well, it just all comes out as jumbled, boring, malarkey. How could i ever hope to be a teacher with that linguistic disability??
Besides the fact that I’m under alot of family pressure to “succeed,” I worry about what things I can tolerate in making a living through civ. That’s why I have these hopes of being a rewild teacher, where I’d at least feel good about what I was doing. If that dream never comes true, I’m not sure what else I’d like to do. What are my talents? Disliking Civ? I’ve been a landscaper for some years, and I enjoy the outdoor part of that, but dislike the unnatural contortions It forces my body into, and, of course, the unnatural contortions that I’m forcing the land into as well.
This is painful for me. I’m cursing much of my current life and just wishing I was part of a tribe and never had to participate in this extreme specialization of energy channeling that is such an investment of time and money. I want to love, and feel loved no matter what my occupation happens to be. I want to be shaped by the wisdom of the ages, not by some teacher trying to make a few extra bucks at the local community college.
But maybe this is all just a cop-out. A way to justify my laziness so I can go on feeling good about myself. Perhaps I’d be just as much a failure in a tribal setting. I’d like to think not, but who knows?
I think what I’ll do is educate myself. I’m pretty passionate and definitely more articulate when it comes to speaking of rewilding. I can learn to hunt, forage, and build shelter in traditional ways. That sounds pretty good about now, but it won’t support me monetarily. Guess I’ll have to stick to being some sort of wage slave for now.
Sorry for the rant, but just posting this makes me feel loads better! Thank you, fellow rewilding people!!