Kingdom of God (rewilding the bible)


#41

I meant my question more towards myth-one, rather than to you, fenris, as i didn’t see much ‘rewilding’ connection in her/his post, and you stayed more explicit. But thank you for both responding and clarifying.

In certain areas where we can overlap with the purpose of other forums, such as a thread on bible scriptures, please continue staying as clear as possible why you’d want to write your insights here in particular, at rewild.info.

we now go back to your normally scheduled immortal soul discussion on the rewild channel.


#42

Aye, I know the Bible and religion anywhere can be a touchy topic, so my reason for writing here, sharing my thoughts of biblical scripture with rewild.info, is for two main reasons, 1. for those who do take hold in the scriptures, that it may help them to rewild (to a biblical extent), 2. To throw the bible back at those who tout it, use the masters tools to take down the masters house. 3. discussion pertaining to either of these two reasons, and the material that supports them.


#43

Hey all, I hope no one minds if I drop in on this conversation. I’ve been following it since it first started up and I find this subject matter intensely interesting.

I have questions for those more informed than me – is there such a concept as a unifying force or spirit in animism? Something Tao-like or otherwise found in all things?

Another question – if the letters of the Hebrew alphabet correspond to certain physical things, what are the correspondences for the 3 letters in the tetragrammaton?

That’s it. Thanks! —Paula


#44

of the numerous forays i’ve made into the “metaphysical”/“supernatural” worlds, i’ve spent almost no time at all on the Hebrew alphabet, so, i have no experience with this 10 minute internet research:

some say 3 letters (IHV), some say 4 letters (IHVH) (again, farthest thing from an expert here)

I = Yud/Yod = Personal Consciousness; Seed; Hand; Point/Pointer (???)
H = Heh = Connection; Window;
V = Vav = Unfolding; Multiplication; Vibration; Cycles (???)

but i should also say that aside from the “simple” meanings, relationships between meanings also come into play

and again, sooooooo not an expert


#45

Paula-

I consider the Taoist folk traditions a remnant of indigenous asian animism…so in that sense, if you see it in the Tao, you can file it under animism. Tom Brown, Jr.'s apache mentor talked a lot about “the-spirit-that-moves-through-all-things”. Japanese shinto animism has “ki”, another kind of all purpose expression of life force. Breath = wind = spirit = moving through all (most) things in most every animist tradition I’ve experienced.

So yeah, I think you could find that common thread in animism traditions. In a larger sense, the Tao as a cyclical force acts as the foundation for every animist tradition in the world, for they all observe and follow the ‘natural way’, the cycle of life-force through the world. I’ve written somewhat on the commonality of the ‘wise compass’ aka ‘medicine wheel’ on my blog.


#46

I love the System of a down song, science,

Science has failed our world
Science has failed our mother earth
spirit moves through all things x13


#47

[quote=“Willem, post:45, topic:426”]Paula-

I consider the Taoist folk traditions a remnant of indigenous asian animism…so in that sense, if you see it in the Tao, you can file it under animism. Tom Brown, Jr.'s apache mentor talked a lot about “the-spirit-that-moves-through-all-things”. Japanese shinto animism has “ki”, another kind of all purpose expression of life force. Breath = wind = spirit = moving through all (most) things in most every animist tradition I’ve experienced.

So yeah, I think you could find that common thread in animism traditions. In a larger sense, the Tao as a cyclical force acts as the foundation for every animist tradition in the world, for they all observe and follow the ‘natural way’, the cycle of life-force through the world. I’ve written somewhat on the commonality of the ‘wise compass’ aka ‘medicine wheel’ on my blog.[/quote]

Thanks for reminding me about your wise compass posts, Willem. I really enjoyed the coyote yin-yang story.

I always loved the carved spirals on the pictures of standing stones in Britain. I tend to feel when I cast a circle before making a petition to the spirits that I have spun a spiral more than anything else. And I try to think of the different personalities in each direction:

East - Air - Spring - Birth
South - Fire - Summer - Youth
West - Water - Autumn - Old age
North - Earth - Winter - Death

When finish honoring the North, I feel the momentum of the spiral continuing on as winter will lead into another spring, and death will feed another birth.

Your yin-yang compass depiction really spoke to me about the give and take relationship of opposing forces like light and dark and hot and cold.


#48

[quote=“Willem, post:45, topic:426”]Paula-

I consider the Taoist folk traditions a remnant of indigenous asian animism…so in that sense, if you see it in the Tao, you can file it under animism. Tom Brown, Jr.'s apache mentor talked a lot about “the-spirit-that-moves-through-all-things”. Japanese shinto animism has “ki”, another kind of all purpose expression of life force. Breath = wind = spirit = moving through all (most) things in most every animist tradition I’ve experienced.

So yeah, I think you could find that common thread in animism traditions. In a larger sense, the Tao as a cyclical force acts as the foundation for every animist tradition in the world, for they all observe and follow the ‘natural way’, the cycle of life-force through the world. I’ve written somewhat on the commonality of the ‘wise compass’ aka ‘medicine wheel’ on my blog.[/quote]

Willem thanks, that actually helps clarify something for me. I have long wondered if G-d / YHWH of Genesis wasn’t an animist understanding of something like the Tao, but from what you say it looks like this would not be too much of a stretch. And if that’s the case, then the Garden of Eden/Fall of Mankind story could easily be interpreted as oral history from an oral culture that eventually got written down – in other words, that it is a factually accurate though symbolic account of the period of time spanning human migration out of Africa, the advent of agriculture, and the rise of the earliest empires.

For example, when Genesis says that “God took man and placed him in the Garden, in the East,” that could be an oral historian’s way of saying “the-spirit-that-moves-through-all-things inspired us to migrate from Africa across the Sinai Peninsula and directly East from there into Southern Iraq, where the ecosystem was beautiful and lush with food.” The account of Adam naming the animals could be synonymous with ongoing developments in ancient Semitic language or proto-language; the account of God creating Eve from Adam’s rib could be synonymous with the rise of memes surrounding human pair-bonding (i.e., it was a new thing on the scene, symbolized by the appearance of a woman). The few short sentences that describe the Fall could be seen as a description of the cognitive process described by Jeff Vail:

Perhaps the most lasting contribution of symbolic thought remains the individual’s ability to represent itself in symbol — conscious self-awareness, and ultimately the ego. The conceptualization of the ego created a wide range of psychological errata, most significantly the sense of the sacred — or separate — status of humans from nature. (p. 18, "A Theory of Power")

It is my understanding that oral cultures view eating something as a deliberate way of making it part of you. When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit – i.e., the symbol separated by taboo from the rest of the Garden – they too became separate & taboo symbols, abstracting themselves right out of animist relationship with the rest of the world. And they reacted by covering themselves… which is what you do when you’re naked and suddenly discover you’re in the presence of someone with whom you do not have a relationship. (At least in our culture anyway, the foundations of which are recorded in Genesis, so I think that’s highly relevant here.)

What I find really interesting about reading Genesis thru this lens is that YHWH’s railings against pagan gods and idols makes total sense. It’s not about racism or intolerance or cultural superiority. There were no deities in the sense that we understand them until after agriculture, and then these deities always served either agriculture, specializations that resulted from agriculture, or the rulers: fertility goddesses, sun gods, rain gods, gods of various kinds of smithing, gods and goddesses of wisdom and justice, warrior gods… I’m sure everyone here knows the archetypes.

YHWH didn’t want people worshipping these pagan gods and idols because they were false… in other words, they weren’t real. And in fact they weren’t: they were abstract symbols that served to further separate humans from the real world by creating entire, imaginary universes to hold peoples’ attention and prevent them from coming back into relationship with the rest of nature and with YHWH, the-spirit-that-moves-through-all-things. I remember reading many passages in which YHWH is outraged and dumbfounded that a person could carve a little statue and then worship it as if it were something other than a little hand-carved statue. I understand this; it’s completely idiotic, especially when you can tilt your head up 30° from the lifeless statue in your hand and see living creatures filling the landscape, the fact of their existence testifying to the existence of the-spirit-that-moves-through-all-things.

And that, of course, has been and continues to be the main problem with civilization and the cultures that create it: it’s all a big fucking scam. it’s all going to cave in on itself under the weight of its own stupidity and self-delusion. There is hardly any difference symbolically between an agricultural fertility goddess and and a stock portfolio, and zero difference in worship outcomes between the two.

I know that archaeologically, pantheism predates monotheism by a long period. I have no dispute with this – the monotheistic God that emerged from the middle east, the one we’re all familiar with, is almost certainly a natural evolution of agro-pagan religious meme complexes. Unfortunately, since people had long since lost their knowledge of relationship to the real world, they had no way of knowing that this consolidation of deities into one had no relationship at all to the original spirit-that-moves-through-all-things. People assumed that when the oral histories were speaking of YHWH, the one unified being, they must be talking about this latest iteration of the agricultural deity. Thus the adoption of the leavers’ story by the takers.

So, that’s my take on the Bible, at least for now. I am always excited to find new pieces of the puzzle.

—paula


#49

I just had to share this:

Is it enough to live just on an existence level? Does not man require more than food and fuel and housing? Does not life, if it is to be a happy one, necessitate space, living room, human dignity, the intangible values that give people happiness? Isn't this after all what really counts? The prophet Isaiah said a long time ago, "Woe unto them who build house to house and lay field to field lest there be no place where a man may be placed alone in the midst of all the earth. Isa 5:8"

#50

I’ve been finding this kind of interesting, Jewish (or Israelite) Shamanism

Story from the guy.
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/4914/edition_id/90/format/html/displaystory.html

***What is Jewish Shamanism?*** (from a pamphlet)

by Rabbi Gershon Winkler,

Cuba, New Mexico

Jewish Shamanism is a quality of consciousness that enables one to experience magic in the ordinary, miracle in the natural course of events, and the spirituality of the physical.

Jewish shamanism is as ancient and as rich as most any other shamanic tradition, sharing in common with many of them the belief that all of creation is alive, not just fauna and flora, but that the planets, the stones, the sun and moon, too, are living conscious beings replete with wisdom and soul (e.g. Psalms 8:7-8; 145:10; 148:3-4 and 7-11; Isaiah 55:12; Job 12:7-8; Midrash Heichalot Rabati 24:3).

The second-century Rabbi Me’ir used to call the sun “My brother” (Midrash B’reishis Rabbah 92:6), “All the trees,” taught the ancient rabbis, “converse with one another and with all living beings” (Midrash B’reishis Rabbah 13:2). The planets and stars even have their own songs (Sefer Ha’Zohar, Vol. 1, folio 231b).

Had the Hebrews never been given their Torah, their divinely inspired scriptures, they would have been able to learn all they needed to know from the animals (Babylonian Talmud, Eruvin 100b).

Ask the animals and they shall teach you; and the birds of the sky, and they shall inform you. Or speak to the earth and she shall show you; and the fishes of the sea shall declare to you.

– Book of Job 12:7-9

The Israelite does not distinguish between a living and a lifeless nature

The Israelites do not acknowledge the distinction between the psychic and the corporeal. Earth and stones are alive, imbued with a soul

– Israel: Its Life and Culture, by Johannes Pederson [Oxford University Press: 1959], pp. 55 and 479

Jewish shamanism requires the awareness that every human being is comprised of the qualities of every other being on the planet. That we are not made solely in the “Image of God” but just as much in the image of all that surrounds us, stones, plants, animals, the galactic beings, and so on (Midrash HaNe’elam 1:16b; Sefer Ha’Zohar, Vol. 4, folio 118b), that when the Creator is quoted in the Hebrew scriptures as declaring, “Let us make the human in our image” (Genesis 1:26), the Creator was addressing all of what had been created up to that point in the creation story.

This implies that the Creator addressed all of creation before making the human, meaning that in creating the human, the Infinite One incorporated all of the attributes of all the animals and plants and minerals and so on that had been created up to this point. In each of us, then, are the powers of all the creatures of the earth.

– 17th-century Rabbi Moshe Cordovero in Shi’ur HaKomah, torah, Ch. 4

The human is then fashioned in the image of the do’mem, ts’owmeya’ch, chayyah, and m’daber: Still Being (mineral), Sprouting Being (flora), Living Being (wildlife), and Speaking Being (human).

In the original Hebrew, the wording is “In the image of Elo’heem.” Elo’heem is the God Name that describes the dynamics of the Creator stirring creation into being. It is therefore a plural word connoting “Forces” or “Powers” (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chayyim 5:1).

Thus, to the Jewish shaman the human is comprised of the chaotic whirlwind of Primeval Creation, of the divine forces dancing spirit into matter, matter into form, and form into action (18th-century Rabbi Chayyim of Volozhin in Nefesh HaChayyim, Ch. 1).

Jewish shamanism assigns enormous importance to the four directions, calling them ar’ba ru’chot, or “four winds,” also Hebrew for “four spirits,” stressing the organic, living nature of the four directions (Sefer Ha’Zohar, Vol. 4, folio 118b).

Each wind or direction is designated an animal (Sefer Ha’Zohar, Vol. 4, folio 18b; Midrash Bamid’bar Rabbah 2:9): the eagle in the north, the buffalo in the west, the human in the south, and the lion in the east (13th-century Rabbi Yitzchak of Akko in Sefer M’irat Einayim, Bamidbar, para. 2). Each wind also has a spirit guardian (Midrash Bamidbar Rabbah 2:10) who, when invoked by various Hebrew and Aramaic incantations, brings forth the gift of that particular wind.

The attributes of these four spirit guardians are healing, reflection, balance, and vision. The four winds themselves are tsafon (north), literally: hidden, as in the place of mystery; meezrach (east), literally: from [the place of] shining; nehggev (south), literally: wiping or cleansing; and maarav (west), literally: from [the place of] blending. Another name for south is darom, which means place of rising, and another name for east is kehdem, which means beginning or before.

The four winds are also given colors: red in the north, black in the west, white in the south, and yellow in the east (Gaon of Vilna on Sefer Yetsirah, Ch. 4).

The four winds are considered to possess each their own distinct power and attribute, all of which are played out in the individual human drama: “The human was created from the powers of the four winds” (Sefer Ha’Zohar, Vol. 1, folio 130b).

Reflective of this and other such cosmologies in ancient Judaic mystery wisdom, are the numerous narratives in both the written and oral traditions about the mastery of the supernatural by the ancestors and teachers of the Jewish people.

read more here
http://home.earthlink.net/~ecorebbe/id15.html


#51

My thoughts on anything in christianity: even if christianity is animistic, ‘valid’ in any sence, or any other positive thing, it still should not be HERE. This place is not for that theology. Sorry if this seems like it comes from nowhere in the conversation, but really, ai think its pointless to speak about fine points of theology in a system that, if originally, or made to be, indigenous, should have its own place somewhere in the middle east or near east, not Turtle Island. Let us use our sence of place as judgement. Just my two shells…


#52

i don’t know

i think a lot of people (myself included) need to find a way to reconcile their “spirit of heritage” with their “spirit of place” as part of the rewilding process

just my 2 cents…


#53

Personally, ai’ve tryed to reconsile, but ai dont think it really works on a fundamental level. Maybe for an indevidual, but maybe not for a culture. Ai think that the culture you feel an affinity with should be in the place that you are; match yourself with the right place. For me, that would be staying right where ai am, but maybe for others that could be some sort of “back to Europe” movement (only part joking). Ai once considered that for me (ai’d prolly have ended up in Scotland, speaking Gaelic), but decided this was my place.


#54

haha I’ve gone through basically the same thing, but… it’s what I grew up with, and takes no matter for where I am, it’s kinda like the thing, where no matter what part of the planet you’re at, it stays with you.

I used to (still am sometimes) with that 'back to Europe thing, especially being from the british isles/scandinavia


#55

Yeah, me too. Occasionally I entertain fantasies of moving to rural Germany (I’m half German by ancestry).


#56

In reality I suppose I could go anywhere in north/western europe, being from just about every country there… somehow


#57

if we’re dumb then god’s dumb (and maybe even a little ugly on the side)


#58

I believe when God said to take dominion over the earth he did not mean to take and take until there was nothing left. By dominion, I think he meant to take care of it and be good stewards of the land. He says in Revelation that he will destory all who destory the earth. I believe it is unChristian to destory what God has created. To me Christianity is a way of life and not a religion. We are to use only what we need and not be wasteful. That is the way of a Christian life. Civilised man is not living as God wanted, he is just a taker of life not a giver.

Bill


#59

Ai’m taking a class called Magic, Witchcraft and Religion right now. In response to my question of whether judaism came from a matriarchal predesessor, the professor stated that judaism was just an amalgamation of the neighboring peoples’ religions, including egyptian and sumerian (some of the oldest civilizations). Viewing it from this perspective, christianity represents one of the world’s most civilized religions. Ai think it would take an almost complete aboutface of its teachings to rewild it sufficiently for good use in a rewilding society. Thats why ai prefer to just start over.


#60

you could interpret the christ story as the return of gods to the realm of kin. jesus speaks to his disciples as “friends.” kill a god, resurrect a relation.