[quote=“bereal, post:25, topic:1069”][quote author=Raven link=topic=1130.msg12409#msg12409 date=1221887197]
All life marches to death/life. You can worry about it if you want.
This is just it, though - civilization (as described above) has a death-wish. It is an instrument of converting the living to the dead - in a word, PRODUCTION. By it’s very nature, it must continually grow economically (or it will collapse), and how it accomplishes this growth is by continually consuming (the mouth that eats) living things - trees, rocks, fish, mountains, human beings, the list goes on - and converting them into “products” - paper, lumber, fish sticks, metal parts in a hardware store or factory, etc…
Because of this, civilization has removed itself completely from the web of life and death, and is entirely concerned with consuming and killing. If it is not stopped (or unless it collapses on its own, but then the question is minimizing the damage), it WILL consume all life on the planet - at least until it can no longer sustain itself (and the humans that act to keep it going).
Could I not turn that around on people BOTH for and against “Civilization”?
People who worry about the future, and past have no presence.[/quote]
Yes, I worry about the future, the future of ecosystems, of species, of humans, but what I am most concerned with is the present. Mountains, rivers, reefs, ocean bays, are being destroyed AS WE SPEAK. 214,000 acres of forest are deforested EVERY DAY, an area larger than New York City.
Fully 90% of each of the world’s large ocean species (cod, halibut, tuna, etc) have disappeared in recent decades (this was reported in 2003). The newspaper also reported that “fishing has become so efficient that it typically takes just 15 years to remove 80% or more of any species unlucky enough to become the focus of a fleet’s attention.”
From Derrick Jensen’s “Engame” (the most important book I’ve ever read):
"Because of civilization, almost 1,400 square miles of land per year are converted into desert, more than twice the rate from thirty years ago… In about twenty years, two-thirds of the arable land in Africa will be gone, as well as one-third in Asia and one-fifth in South America…The corporate press further acknowledges that prior to civilization even some of what are now the most inhospitable deserts were habitable, saying that ‘much of the Middle East, the Mediterranean and North Africa were once green. The Sahara itself was a savanna, and rock paintings show giraffes, elephants, and cows once lived there.’
As industrial civilization kills the land, so too it kills the oceans. Each summer a dead zone covers 8,000 square miles in the Gulf of Mexico… Altogether, there are almost 150 dead zones, places where the water contains too little oxygen to sustain life. This number has doubled each decade since the 1960’s."
And even worse for the oceans is deep-sea trawling. The CBC reports that “every year, the giant nets that trawler ships pull across the bottom of the sea devastate an area of the global seabed twice the size of the United States, scraping up everything from coral to sharks.”
I could go on, but I won’t. There is plenty enough to be concerned about in the present, to make worrying about the future a luxury.[/quote]
Wow your in a lot of places at once!
I know the effects of the idea “Civilization”.
But I don’t see the noun Civilization. Because it aint there.
Yet people talk about it like it ACTUALLY exists… show me.
When Civilization is a noun in the mind (an image), it becomes an idol to war against. It becomes Satan, to your God. Be careful
When people try to impose their idea of “greater good” they equally create a “greater evil”. Example: Stopping Civilization.
You can only stop “Civilization” for YOURSELF. In your own head. Then your action will show others. So THEY can decide for themselves. No idols. Or thou shalts necessary. You don’t even have to speak, if you don’t want.
Trying to stop Civilization, is good for some (in their minds) and evil for others (in their minds).
Worrying about it crashing is the same as cheering it on. It’s a waste of energy.
“inevitable crashing”, is an end-time prophecy… religion. Waste of energy.