The effectiveness of our strategies for change


I am replying here because what I want to say fits better in this topic.

Though your approach differs from mine, I appreciate your consistency in recognizing the urgency of the problem of civilization in the world, and also your recognition that, as humans coming from a civilized background, our first responsibility is to radically change our own physical way of life.

I see from your posts that you have made a number of attempts at gathering together a community of humans committed to the simpler way of life. I wish you all the best in those efforts, though I personally have found that when I am around other humans for too long, even those of good will, I get sucked right back into my own civilized mind which I am trying so hard to outgrow (Even on this forum so many misunderstandings occur because in using a language of the civilization we are necessarily boxing our fluid thoughts into chunky abstractions).

What I am doing now is adjusting my own physical life to fit into the real world, still here beneath the civilization. After I have progressed more in this I hope to get together with other humans who are working for change. I currently am vegan, not because I value the lives of plants less than animals (in fact I am appreciating the plants more every day) but because I am foraging all my food in the simplest, most direct way possible, and have found that this is doable with what the trees and other plants here provide, while the skills of a carnivore seem far beyond me at this point.

I just love that you never give up. Me neither. I turn to this forum to stay encouraged about humans and I appreciate all of you here.

Thank you very much, I would be happy to be in communication with you still.


Sure. In what way?

There are personal messages through this, I am aware. I don’t usually come here often, but about once a week. I am on Facebook but not much more than here, if you are there messaging is possible with that. I am on MeWe much more, and messaging is not a separate thing like it is with Facebook apps, if you use MeWe it is possible with that. In any case I would necessarily give you the name I have in either of those and the way to be in contact. There is otherwise email possible for it. You can let me know through a personal message here. I hardly have any who can agree this much and is willing to dialogue that we might hear more from each other. I seek to answer others in regard to sustainability in living, an appropriate subject in this forum, with not seeking to hijack any discussion.

I am new to the group, but not to activism; In the past I was an animal rights activist. Now, mostly arm chair. I’m no longer against meat-eating, but I abhor factory farming, vivisection, and generally taking the autonomy away from what should be the wild life of an animal or sea life. Anyway, change, regardless of movement, must work all the avenues. Protests are conversation starters and can possibly get the media to report the issue. One must always keep in mind how we operate as a species. We want a long and healthy life. We want security. We want to avoid pain and suffering. We mostly want to be accepted. I personally could care less about fitting in with civilization, but I can enjoy conversation with my tribe. Keeping these things in mind, one can move forward toward an uncivilized planet by waking people up with protest and education, but also showing them the way so that they can keep the motives of the human in mind. Of course, there will always be the lazy slobs that need remote controls and televisions.

Are protests so effective? I don’t mean to say they are never effective at all, we have some change from protests. But most of what we have came about from advances and changes among individuals in how they live, with more wanting that way then. I think this way is more effective, for leaving and being independent of civilization groups of individuals can together give example to many more of how it works. Discussing doing that without getting there would not be so effective. So I see coming to the goals of the pursuit, to me involving being independent of civilization with real sustainability in living that way, with any others involved together in that, is needed, even though with transition to that needed. I do see it good to choose not using animals, and so I don’t.

Hello, Well I am in agreement with you regarding protest effectiveness; If we look at little Greta Thunberg we see she has created quite the protest worldwide for climate change, but the power structures are not making the necessary changes. We have in the president’s state of the union mention planting trillion trees and I would hazard to guess that those protesters could be voters, so yes they are doing something but not enough.

I am dedicating this year to learning as much as I can about deep ecology and seeing just how many changes I can make toward cutting my harm to the natural world. This spring will be two years since I gave you car to my brother; I will still use it if I need to go to the doctor or pet sit for him, but otherwise it has worked. I bought a recumbent trike with storage to get my groceries or to forage. I walk and I take the bus sometimes as well. It’s been years since I have had a television and I am oblivious to who is famous these days. I had six lamps and now I’m down to one. I sold really nice furniture in the hopes that it would prevent someone buying new and I no longer needed. My electric supply is as of the first of the year renewable, so I tried using a hot plate to cook, but didn’t work to well and damaged bottom of pot. I live in a apartment that came with the usual giant family of four refrigerator. I am in two minds about what to do. Keep using it because it is already here or buy one of the new usb powered mini cooler fridge that has a handle and I can bring with me and probably can be charged on a solar panel, but then I think that then I am just buying stuff, so for now I have not decided. I am happy to have found this group and I look forward to learning from the members. We have as evolved to eat cooked food and the nature around me is not anywhere near sufficient for adequate foraging, so I feel trapped in civilization because I am dependent on it. Thank you for your thoughts.