Well, my two cents on this [issue as a whole], I would not want to bring a child into ‘this’ world, i.e. civilization world, but I would want to have a child a bring them up in the world. I fear for the survival of my species… and I see no reason why I am not a good candidate to eventually raise a child in ‘the’ world, and to hopefully learn and be the start of something new. I know some people might talk of adoption, I talked with trollsplinter about this, but seriously? Who would let me adopt their kid… without me lying, and faking my identity, and all the hassle, for I plan on not even retaining a U.S. citizenship, so I see no other way, unless I stole the child. =P
I have a son, and I want another kid. After that, I may want one more, or I may adopt. I admit, though, that my main purpose is to have Grandkids, and I have kids so I can get those. Well, and because I owe my mother grandkids, it was part of the deal. 
My son is in school for 2 reasons. First, because he has a form of Autism, and needed therapy, therapy neither I or my wife were equipped to give him. And it’s been quite effective: it looks like he may grow up to be completely functional: he’s certainly become insanely social, and the only place that you can still tell he has problems is his speech. In a way, I think working with kids that have mental challenges allows teachers to break free from their own prison, because you CAN’T teach them like other kids, and you HAVE to find out what works for that specific child.
The other reason, sadly, is that I have to work (necessity), and my my wife has to work (compulsion), and my son needs to be looked after during the day. I think this is the real reason why there isn’t an explosion of home-schooling in this country. Both parents are working full time jobs. “Who has the time?”, the perpetual excuse not to change anything.
I have always wanted to adopt, but the birthing pull is stronger and stronger as I grow older, so I have been thinking I would like to birth one and adopt one. Don’t know which first, but that will all depend on many things!
-emily
Until very recently even thinking of having a child was an absolute taboo for me. Then I tried to find the root of this feeling and there it was:
I never want another human being going through all the miseries I went all over again. W/Slave parents who were rarely home and thus were strangers (I still cannot boast of knowing them); TWELVE years being where I HATED to be (I was a real rebel in school); Resistance and criticism from family and society in every single step I took; Loneliness b/c of my oddity; And this harsh feeling that I may never find a door in THE WALL.
No thanks I refuse to have a kid as long as I’m sure that that kid Will have this all over again, Unless I break free.
But wait a minute, to have a kid you need a wife! And to meet a rewilding woman is a sweet dream that I like to fancy day and night!
Hold it! To deserve a woman (a real natural one I mean, a wild one) I must be a man, one who can support himself at least, and not a deformed creature who survives b/c he says “Yes Sir” firmly and loudly. Excuse me this question doesn’t apply to me at all!
And let me say if I manage to get through all these obstacles, I would gladly have a child ( or more!). That’s natural isn’t it? And if someone asks what about the over population I’d say I will happily kill a few people to open up space for my breed. After all there will be a lot of people who won’t like to see a happy and free family (or tribe) living in nature, so they deserve the death, don’t they?!
(Since you ended with “don’t they?”)
No, they don’t. At least, not by your hand. Never assume you know so much that you can make that decision outside the immediate. And don’t advertise that you’re willing to do that. For more reasons then I care to go into, you should keep that to yourself.
hmm… i think i kinda see what your talking about Mountain Refugee…
…not long ago i met a female who was wilder in heart than i could ever try…
…it was as if this American-civilization didn’t touch her in single bit… and she made me think alot about the meaning of the connection between man and woman, in a different way than i was used too…especially when it came to children… one of the things she said as simple as it may be was “we would make a beutiful child”… and that made me think… yeah… we would…
my view before was that i would never want to bring a child into the world… because i myself was one of those growing up that just hated everything about mostly everything in this society, yes quite a rebel, but i became apart of the counterculture, and began to learn that change is needed and that no one is going to do it but us… and since then ive been dreaming of what kind of world i would make if it was up to me…and in the world im dreaming of all the time, i would want to bring a child into that world…and i would want them to have better chance at surviving than then others but i wouldnt want want death for them…just a better life for my own and hope that they will be stronger than the rest due to my teachings, and protection…
good luck finding your roots woman…
…be excellent
…json
You cannot be attached to your kids deciding to live the way you think they should live. No matter how cool you are as a parent, your kids may very well be curious about how other people live, and they may find it interesting enough to want to try it out. They may even like it. That is their path to walk, not the parents.
Don’t think that your kids will be any different than you were as a kid, or are as a young person. You as a parent will probably not be that cool.
What you can do is give them the example of another way to live, so that they will never feel like they have no other option but to buy in to the mainstream.
Being a parent is a very cool thing to do. Everything that you may have to give up when you have children is totally worth the trade. You will become a much richer, deeper, and better person.
When I was 24 I had been hitchhiking and hopping freight trains for a few years, I’d had no fixed address since I was 20. I met a woman who had two kids and I knew she was the one. I have no idea what she saw in me, but I decided to step up and be a father. Man it was really rough! I was scared shitless and totally freaked at the enormity of the responsibility of having other people who completely depended on me to have my shit together. But 25 years later I am still their Dad and I have another daughter and I’m still with the same woman.
Jason you are a lucky man, well done.
I see that you try to keep the peace again, Victor! And I agree with you if I was to go to a guy and say hey I’ll kill ya cause I need your space! But out there a time will come when I have to choose between my life and that other guy’s life. How and why? I’ll tell you. Out there in the mountains exist two rivals: Patrols and Nomads.
If a patrol catch me in a hunt he’d earn something between one and two years of his salary depending on the prey (remember that I live in Iran). And he could shoot me or kill me with no consequences(I know of a few cases and I know the rules). The reward he’d receive is half the fine I’d be supposed to pay, the money I don’t have, and this means they’d put me in prison for a few years depending on the prey. So if I come upon a patrol in a hunt, one out of this three things would happen: 1- He’d shoot me (I will die or if still alive then:) 2- I’ll end up in prison ( a happy ending for one who went into wilderness to be free) or 3- I’d shoot him (every year a few patrols are killed b/c hunters know of the consequences and b/c of this patrols don’t hesitate to shoot a hunter). I guess I’d choose the third one.
And Nomads, every single mountain and valley is a pasture to a tribe and though I won’t graze, they’d graze my would-be garden. (Right now I have an orchard and they would graze it if I don’t watch, though I legally possess the land) We may come on good terms, we may have fight (I’m alone, they are a tribe). In case of the latter I’d most likely lose and have to leave my w/b garden and move, b/c if I kill one of them and stay, I’m surely a dead man. But it’s hard just to leave and go, so I prefer to kill a few and then move on.
“And don’t advertise that you’re willing to do that” you wrote. Why not? I’m in this forum to tell people what I have in mind and know their thoughts. And I guess talking about killing is not a taboo, at least here. Anyway though I’m not sold to John Lennon Imaginations, I praise peace and understanding and hope that the time doesn’t come when I have to choose between my life and another’s life.
Mountain refugee,
You live in circumstances that very few people on this forum can even imagine at all.
You said, “I praise peace and understanding and hope that the time doesn’t come when I have to choose between my life and another’s life.”
I pray it doesn’t come to that for you as well.
There’s not much I can say because I’ve never been to Iran. The closest thing I have experienced is living on the street in the US. I have had to fight for my life, but not in the kind of circumstances you are describing.
I imagine the nomads continue to bring children into the world and raise them to continue their way of life?
[quote=“mountain refugee, post:49, topic:97”]. Out there in the mountains exist two rivals: Patrols and Nomads.
If a patrol catch me in a hunt he’d earn something between one and two years of his salary depending on the prey (remember that I live in Iran). And he could shoot me or kill me with no consequences(I know of a few cases and I know the rules). The reward he’d receive is half the fine I’d be supposed to pay, the money I don’t have, and this means they’d put me in prison for a few years depending on the prey. So if I come upon a patrol in a hunt, one out of this three things would happen: 1- He’d shoot me (I will die or if still alive then:) 2- I’ll end up in prison ( a happy ending for one who went into wilderness to be free) or 3- I’d shoot him (every year a few patrols are killed b/c hunters know of the consequences and b/c of this patrols don’t hesitate to shoot a hunter). I guess I’d choose the third one.
And Nomads, every single mountain and valley is a pasture to a tribe and though I won’t graze, they’d graze my would-be garden. (Right now I have an orchard and they would graze it if I don’t watch, though I legally possess the land) We may come on good terms, we may have fight (I’m alone, they are a tribe). In case of the latter I’d most likely lose and have to leave my w/b garden and move, b/c if I kill one of them and stay, I’m surely a dead man. But it’s hard just to leave and go, so I prefer to kill a few and then move on.[/quote]
Mountain refugee, Would you be able to hunt on the nomad’s tribal land if you got to know them and were friendly with them, or worked out some sort of similar arrangement with them and then not have to worry about the patrols?
What fruits do you grow in your orchard?
Re: Should we bring more children into this world? « Reply #45 on: December 02, 2007, 01:28:38 PM » Reply with quote (Since you ended with "don't they?")No, they don’t. At least, not by your hand. Never assume you know so much that you can make that decision outside the immediate. And don’t advertise that you’re willing to do that. For more reasons then I care to go into, you should keep that to yourself
I think I finally disagree with Mr. J
Killing someone who is striving or just advocating your end is OK( and recommended for your survival). That is why we should not wish violence on others because then it’s justified for them to hunt us down like the enemies to their existence we would be.
Wait… I think I just agreed with you again…well the important part .
Someone is going to have to help me with this quotation crap. I am a little slow and generally start drinking Rum around supper time.
How does one get the posters name to show up like that?
I imagine the nomads continue to bring children into the world and raise them to continue their way of life?
Yes they bring children into the world and send them to college or town! Things are changing everywhere. Nowadays most nomads forage with trucks!!!
Mountain refugee, Would you be able to hunt on the nomad's tribal land if you got to know them and were friendly with them, or worked out some sort of similar arrangement with them and then not have to worry about the patrols?
Anything is possible. But since the policy of central government has been disarming and settling them down, they are not normally friendly toward city men. But it shouldn’t be impossible to become friends. And the nomads who are untouched by modernity, those who don’t forage with trucks, don’t know persian (my tongue) at all, and you cannot learns their language from anybody but themselves, so starting to communicate with them shouldn’t be easy at all. After all if I succeed no patrol would dare to even approach me! Sure I’ll give it a try.
What fruits do you grow in your orchard?
I grow apricot and peach. I hope I can sell it in spring to go wilder!
[quote=“grog, post:52, topic:97”]Someone is going to have to help me with this quotation crap. I am a little slow and generally start drinking Rum around supper time.
How does one get the posters name to show up like that?[/quote]
You hit the “quote” button in the upper right hand corner of the response that you want to quote. That should give you the original post info…
babies are tenderness, so to answer the question, yes, but let’s teach them what we know of rewilding. feral babies! this reminds me of an article in GA a couples issues back about building momentum (rather than “movements”) against civilization. relating this fight to boxing, we can grease up our gloves and faces to take a few blows, know when to pivot back, and strike when the blow will be a knockout!
AF F E C T I O N instills strength. Without it,
it is nearly impossible to struggle with
e x p eriences too intense and painful to endure.
Tenderness is a way of life, opposed to the
automatization of the clock and forced labor.
Robotization is a way of death, opposed to the
liberation of time and leisure, which allow tenderness to grow like a healthy trunk in the garden of
all and so spread its aroma among all beings that
inhabit the planetary garden. In contrast, globalization imposes a standard mold on our garden. It
manifests itself in a triple process: imperial expansion of capital; worldwide standardization through
economic control by transnational companies, and
domestication of the soil through monoculture,
destroying natural variety and paving the earth.
Its avarice threatens all natural cycles. The soil is
the skin and the flesh that covers our planet. Clean
air is the landscape that gives us oxygen and
p r otects us from dying, burnt by the penetration
of ultraviolet rays. Condors and Magellan sheep
1 0
have been blinded due to the weakening ozone
layer. Water gives us life. Soil, air and water are
parts of a natural cycle that pollution interrupts.
Then, fire gives us the energy we need, and the
sun nurtures us with compassion and tenderness.
Certainly we all need tenderness: the cat
that stretches itself between the calves of guests
or meows in your lap; the dog that jumps excited
at your return and looks for your recognition.
Tenderness reconnects us to all things and makes
us well. Who has not felt pleasure at touching the
face of a loved one or bathed in the pleasure of a
belovedÕs touch?
Robotic cibernetic replicas only work.
They falsely perceive time, they understand it as
a continuous line where past, present and future
intersect simultaneously but in an unreal way.
The notion of time is an authoritarian imposition
of the social order that justifies itself with the false
idea of progress, a model of legitimization of the
dominant order: industrialization, imprisonment
and territorial delimitation. Materially, we live in
the present, in existence itself.
ÒHic et nunc,Ó so goes the Latin refrain,
here and now. Because of this, memoryÑalways
active and arbitrary, changing and selectiveÑ
gives us a perception of our own experience.
Experience amplifies peculiarity, a process distinct
1 1
from history, this is to say from the standardization
of the official. The only common factor to all the
peculiarities there are on earth is tenderness.
Affection is a primary necessity of human beings.
Knowing, then is to understand that without tenderness and love, no revolution can be possible.
[quote=“tierra//crust, post:55, topic:97”]Affection is a primary necessity of human beings.
Knowing, then is to understand that without tenderness and love, no revolution can be possible.[/quote]
Thanks for your words. Sometimes I feel lost and frantic in my search for what action I can take in the face of control and domination and the making of robots and all the tearing down. . . then I remember that tenderness for an individual, whether tree or human, child or adult, makes ALL the difference.
Recently my son & I came back from a long walk in the park to find a guy up in a cedar tree, three doors down, with a chainsaw. The recognition, acknowledgement, sadness, and giving up passed through me in seconds, but my son felt stuck and wouldn’t move on til we went over to register our discontent with the situation, ask why they wanted to take the tree down, ask them to stop. The tree represented an inconvenience to some landlord, maintenance, a burden, a liability, not in his best business interests.
Somebody show me a corporation with tenderness. Impossible, you say? A mythical creature for us all to dream up.
I created a thread in the dangers forum where the conversation about killing can continue without mucking up a thread about kids.
I’m glad you enjoyed those words but I have to clarify that this excerpt comes from “The Garden of Peculiarities”, by Jesus Sepulveda.
http://feralhouse.com/press/mini_sites/garden_of_peculiarities/excerpts/GOP_section1-6_pages1-19.pdf
Check out the mini-site
http://feralhouse.com/press/mini_sites/garden_of_peculiarities/index_frame.php
I think Jesus is now at UofO under Romance Languages. I love his writing.
i think that the desire to reproduce is intrinsic to every living creature. Especially being a woman, I could not imagine living my entire life without experiencing how incredible it must be to create a child
Plains:
Eh? I don’t understand you fully, but I don’t want to take the thread away from the kid thing. If you started a thread on that thought I’d have a conversation with you about it.
Bruja:
Yeah. KIDS! I can feel my biological clock. It hurts a little to see my friends who have children. Sigh. In a good way.