Finding/creating a TRIBE

Regenerative Culture Relationships, Partnerships & Sexuality
#21

[quote=“heyvictor, post:20, topic:513”]I’m glad you jumped in with your experience Sandwalker. Many “tribal” people here in N. America also have adoption rituals for adopting new people into their family. In my experience these are not just token gestures to honor someone. When someone is adopted, they become a member of the family with the privileges and responsibilties that come with it. They get the support of the family and in turn it’s expected that they will support the other members in whatever way they can.

It’s hard for mainstream N. Americans to imagine this and it would be hard for me to imagine a bunch of people coming together and being able to really embrace this way of relationship. When an individual gets to experience a family extending this support during a difficult time and is brought into the family not only in a ceremonial way but in a real everyday kind of way, a lot of our old cultural conditioning can fall away.[/quote]

Good points heyvictor.

It’s also hard for me to imagine a bunch of people coming together in N. America and being able to embrace this way of relationship, yet I am glad you brought it up because I think people need to take it into consideration if they want to build or create functional, healthy clan-like social groups. I also agree that cultural conditioning can fall away when one is included in the everyday life of an extended family/clan-like social group.

Banding together with a crew or a job for a temporary econcomic purpose and then disbanding is one thing, but does that really meet the social and economic needs of the people involved? I would say partly, from my personal experience.

It’s not what I would call “living in a tribe” however. I don’t see anything wrong with it, though. I have to wonder , are more people interested in just temporary teamwork or getting together once in a while or are they interested in creating and living in long-term tribes where daily life is shared and eventually you would like to have children and a wife or husband, and where you have to deal with each other’s issues from time to time, and where there are real concrete obligations and responsibilities to each other.

I also have to wonder if people are waiting for the ideal “tribe” to emerge and then they will go and join that one. There is no ideal social group, even the most egalitarian h/g society had it’s share of the good and the bad, so it might help to lower our standards a little and make a go of it with people here and now. Obligations and social responsibility are really not so bad as some people may think. It’s hard for me to explain but the benefits far far outweigh any hurdles that come along the way.

The test of true friendship or brotherhood comes in the times of need and when there are problems and hard times. It’s during those times when you find out who your real friends are and who aren’t.

#22

emily,

i understand how you feel. my partner and i grew up in the south spent a few years in the pacific northwest and returned “home” to where land is cheaper.

so here’s our delimma:

is it better for the kids to grow up outdoors (in the woods, on acrege, playing in the creek, etc) but in an area that is 99% southern baptist, homophobic, patriotic, etc. so they have no friends (except for the squirrels and frogs)

or is it more important to grow up in a “progressive” city where they can be themselves and wont be ashamed to be “different” and have like-minded friends, but with no wilderness?

perhaps this should be a whole new thread.

ps- if your in southern ohio you should check out gene logsdon!

#23

In the South?

AUSTIN.
Athens, GA
Savannah
Chapel Hill
Charlottesville

(off the top of my head)

Generally, university towns are more socially open to those who think like us.

#24

I really don’t think these stereotypes of rural people are worthwhile in any way. I’ve lived as a fairly extreme alternative person in rural areas. Some of the redneckiest around actually, for 30 years. Rural people are for the most part salt of the earth kind of people with much less in the way of pretentiousness.
They know a lot of the things that ya’ll would like to know and a lot of them learned it from their parents who learned it from their parents. They got that knowlege from an unbroken line of people who had it. Not from a book or the internet.
They grow big gardens, they share with their neighbors, they hunt and fish, and they know how to take care of themselves and their families and animals.
A lot of the guys I knew could take a cutting torch and a pile of old cars and make anything you want out of it.
They taught me all about wood, and hunting.
If you can drop your own pretentiousness and relate on a human to human level. If they see that you are there with the same struggles and things to deal with as them, most of the rural people I know are pretty “live and let live” when it comes to politics and religion, unless you shove it in their face all the time.

It sounds like the stereotypes and prejudice that you are carrying around are gonna keep you living in a city because of an imagined fear of country folk.

#25

[quote=“heyvictor, post:24, topic:513”]I really don’t think these stereotypes of rural people are worthwhile in any way. I’ve lived as a fairly extreme alternative person in rural areas. Some of the redneckiest around actually, for 30 years. Rural people are for the most part salt of the earth kind of people with much less in the way of pretentiousness.
They know a lot of the things that ya’ll would like to know and a lot of them learned it from their parents who learned it from their parents. They got that knowlege from an unbroken line of people who had it. Not from a book or the internet.
They grow big gardens, they share with their neighbors, they hunt and fish, and they know how to take care of themselves and their families and animals.
A lot of the guys I knew could take a cutting torch and a pile of old cars and make anything you want out of it.
They taught me all about wood, and hunting.
If you can drop your own pretentiousness and relate on a human to human level. If they see that you are there with the same struggles and things to deal with as them, most of the rural people I know are pretty “live and let live” when it comes to politics and religion, unless you shove it in their face all the time.

It sounds like the stereotypes and prejudice that you are carrying around are gonna keep you living in a city because of an imagined fear of country folk.[/quote]

Well, I’ve done both - rural and urban. Heyvictor, I agree with you about tradition and self-sufficiency, but not so much about the religion-politics aspect. I don’t shove any of my opinions in others’ faces, but I found that once certain (not all) people got an inkling of how “out there” my beliefs were they felt a need to indoctrinate me or take the moral “upper hand”. When I resisted letting their words sink in, they got more aggressive. Maybe we have had different experiences in that respect because I was young and more moldable and therefore more vulnerable.

And, I never felt appreciated on an intellectual level in a rural setting. There are tight communities, sure, but those communities often serve goals that I don’t really share. Yes, they’re not dense cities, but they’re still missing something that doesn’t make them whole. Usually it’s a kind of socio-economic narrowness as well as ideological narrowness.

I do very much appreciate learning how to fish and do other self-sufficient activities that were close to the natural world.

I’ve found that (as with every comparison) there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

Also, country people have an imagined fear of city people that is just as strong! Story: A couple of years ago I was renting a room in a nice neighborhood in St. Paul/Minneapolis. It was actually very tame and a little boring according to most city standards. It had a great neighborhood feel, and very convenient for someone who didn’t have a car, but it was quiet. A couple of my high school friends, who were living in an outer ring suburb (very much outer ring) at the time, heard that I was living in “the twin cities” (in their minds, they were also living in “the cities”) and called me up to see if I wanted to go out with them. I said “yes, but I don’t have a car, and it would take me forever to get to Anoka.” They said (and meant, being sweet rural Minnesotans) that it would be no problem to pick me up. Well, when Reid and Michelle rolled into my street in a HUGE black pickup with flames painted on the side :), the first thing they both said (almost in unison) was, " :o Oh my god! You live in a ghetto! :o"

It was all I could do to laugh, and laugh. :slight_smile:

#26

I mean, it’s a delicate balance. You don’t want to insulate yourself with people exactly like you, but you also don’t want to isolate yourself with people who aren’t. Society does a pretty good job of segregating people. It’s hard to find diverse communities.

#27

Do rural folk have nothing to fear from city folk?

#28

The city/suburbs encroaching on them? Oh wait you said folk… idk…

#29

I think in any living situation with a somewhat large group of people is gonna be tough i guess everyone just has to be willing to tolerate at little.

i also find my self alone in this battle, my only partner, who we shared the same dreams left me and now i feel like i have no help at all, “feeling tribe-less”, and in my hometown, no one has one bit of a clue about anything, so i know how you feel, there aint much to do around here either, but i plan to leave and find a nice communtiy.

#30

When I was studying Hunter Gathers in sociology the tribe size seemed to peak at about 30 people or 4 or 5 extended families.

#31

http://www.powells.com/biblio/17-9780609805367-2

Beyond Civilization by D. Quinn might be a useful book to read for anyone grappling with this topic. I just finished it, and (for me at least) it helped open some doors.

#32

I just purchased that book to read… still waiting on it to get here in the mail…

#33

[quote=“SilverArrow, post:23, topic:513”]In the South?

AUSTIN.
Athens, GA
Savannah
Chapel Hill
Charlottesville[/quote]

sorry i forgot to mention that we’d probably move back to the northwest outside of portland, or eugene

#34

[quote=“heyvictor, post:24, topic:513”]I really don’t think these stereotypes of rural people are worthwhile in any way. I’ve lived as a fairly extreme alternative person in rural areas. Some of the redneckiest around actually, for 30 years. Rural people are for the most part salt of the earth kind of people with much less in the way of pretentiousness.
They know a lot of the things that ya’ll would like to know and a lot of them learned it from their parents who learned it from their parents. They got that knowlege from an unbroken line of people who had it. Not from a book or the internet.
They grow big gardens, they share with their neighbors, they hunt and fish, and they know how to take care of themselves and their families and animals.
A lot of the guys I knew could take a cutting torch and a pile of old cars and make anything you want out of it.
They taught me all about wood, and hunting.
If you can drop your own pretentiousness and relate on a human to human level. If they see that you are there with the same struggles and things to deal with as them, most of the rural people I know are pretty “live and let live” when it comes to politics and religion, unless you shove it in their face all the time.

It sounds like the stereotypes and prejudice that you are carrying around are gonna keep you living in a city because of an imagined fear of country folk.[/quote]

well for for 29 of my 31 years i have lived in rural areas around the salt-of-the-earth folks.
so what i speak comes from actual experiences and not stereotypes.

i believe what i said was “99% southern baptist, homophobic, patriotic”
i never said anything about hunting or fishing. i agree with that. my neighbors here know more about the animals in this area that the people in the nearby city.
yes, some have gardens and some share. and yeah some can even weld.
i have no issue with that.

even when our vehicle was vandalized it was the local rednecks on four wheelers that helped us while the people at the budding eco-village next door were too busy having a woo-woo sharing circle.

but i disagree with the “live and let live” part when it comes to religion.
and this comes from personal experience not prejudice

we have found over and over that our neighbors are quite willing to overlook the way one might dress or wear their hair or whatever. even what they think politically.

but as soon as they catch wind of our religious beliefs (or lack of)…all doors are shut.

and it’s not something that’s “in their face.” we keep it extremely to ourselves.

i know they’d rather live next to a black, transvestite communist than a pagan or, worse, an atheist.

this has played out over and over throughout my life and nothing anyone can say can convince me otherwise. i know what i’ve seen. i know what i’ve heard. i believe what i experienced. i’m not a pretentious, snobby city-bred liberal asshole.

religion is a deal-breaker when it comes to friendliness around here. i’m glad you have found a more accepting populace around you. you are very fortunate and it seems you dont take it for granted.

my experience has been a different story.

#35

BEEN CONSIDERING FOR SOME TIME THE DEVELOPMENT…ORGANIZATION…OF A “WATERBORNE”…COASTAL TRIBE…HUNTER/GATHERER…LIVING IN THE LARGEST TEMPERATE RAIN FOREST IN THE WORLD…THE “TONGASS”…S.E.ALASKA…

USING SPECIAL OPERATIONS PHILOSOPHY ON GROUP DYNAMICS…LEADERSHIP…
…
ESTABLISHING A TRADE/BARTER SYSTEM FOR NON-PROCURABLE GOODS IE (RICE…LENTALS…BEANS…TEA…SUGAR…FLOUR…ETC)

PLEASE LET ME HEAR YOUR IDEAS ON THIS

“WALK SOFT”…URIAH