I’d like to say first off that I am not a naysayer about rewilding. I’m thrilled that this board exists and that all of you are here discussing the things that get discussed here. I think the general direction that ya’ll are moving is wonderful and I would like to be encouraging and say go for it, start living the life you dream of as soon as you are able, because it is a beautiful dream, not because you have no choice.
It seems that Jason and I are talking about different scenarios. To me he is describing a vision of the future where the rewilding culture has evolved closer to it’s full potential. I am thinking more of what the folks who are on this forum right now, and probably their children, are likely to experience in their lifetimes if they go for the dream.
“The idea that the ease, comfort and luxury of primitive living come from some branch of the enlightened mind unattached to the joys of this world–as Marshall Sahlins put it in “The Original Affluent Society,” following “a Zen road to affluence”–springs at us as the misbegotten bastard from the ill-considered and troubled marriage of primitivism and asceticism.”
I don’t understand what that means. I haven’t read that book. I don’t know much about Zen. If I get what your saying, my point is not to hold onto mainstream values but just deny them. I’m saying, place your value on something different.
“…it just takes dealing with the ways they actually live, rather than the ways we ascribe to them. Hadza men would spend whole days gambling. Some men never hunted at all, they just gambled and told stories. Haudenosaunee men preened constantly over their luxurious hair and oiled their bodies, to an extent that would likely have gotten them called “dandies” in our society. Hunter-gatherers eat rich diets; your average hunter-gatherer eats more kinds of food in a single day than even a wealthy American today will eat in his entire lifetime. They wear furs, only use fine, hand-crafted tools, and want for nothing. It doesn’t take a shift in values to appreciate the luxury in that…
Most of us camp, fish or hunt as a recreational activity. That constituted their only work, and only then when they felt like it. A few hours of hunting or fishing compared to 8-10 hours in a cubicle. Wearing genuine animal furs compared to button-down shirts and khakis. Feasting and partying a few times a week compared to maybe going to the movies on Saturday if you’re really well off. Having the time for everyone to dote over their hair or the way they look, compared to just the pampered rich. What part of this do you think makes a hard sell? What part of this requires a change in value system to appreciate?”
This sounds like a description of an evolved culture that could be down the road for our descendants. Not too likely for us or our own children, even with all the circumstances that we look for. Actually I think this is really a description of the best of times for those “Old growth cultures” as you call them. Not typical day to day life.
I don’t know you Jason. We’ve never met, never corresponded except for here, I’ve never even seen a picture of you, I’d walk right by you on the street. I have no idea what experience you have with the day to day reality of this kind of life. From your comments about asceticism, I get the impression you feel like this applies to me. I’ve lived outside the mainstream most of my adult life, back in the woods, without modern conveniences. But not alone, I have always had a family in this lifestyle(wife and kids) and also lived in communities of people doing the same things. We have been part of work co-operatives with our communities and done community food gathering and preserving. I’ve probably come as close to living the life as anyone on this forum, and done it for decades, not months. I guess since I’m not still doing that exactly I would fall into what you describe as a failure. However I don’t see it that way.
I could probably go through your qoute above sentence by sentence and provide another perspective, but I won’t. Your comment about hunting for a few hours a day and only when they felt like it might be the case somewhere, but not most areas of N. America, except possibly the NW coast. Your description above doesn’t talk about life outside. Most people would not think of walking, with all the possessions that their family needs, for a week or more to get to the next seasonal camp, in any kind of weather, as luxury.
Most people would not consider going outside in the night at 30 below to squat over a hole to shit as luxury.
No matter how luxurious your fur bedding is, waking up in a dwelling with the air temp. below freezing and having every liquid in your house frozen solid since you went to bed last night would not be considered luxury even by most of the people on this forum.
Regardless of how well set up you are, there are times when you have to be outside, maybe all day, maybe for several days, even if it’s pouring down rain for days at a time. I know what this is like. I worked in the woods for 14 years. I know what it’s like to spend all day, from first light until dark, on snowshoes, covering a lot of territory. That’s what running a trap line would entail, (for small game and those furs). And in that situation you might not be getting back home at night. You may be out for a couple of days. Not exactly luxurious by our contemporary standards.
I’ve done a fair bit of research and study of the Native people of this area. I also am friends with people who are holders of oral history for those people. I’ve heard many of the stories. This area was probably one of the most idyllic places on this continent. Rivers full of salmon, every kind of big game, roots, berries, medicines, and a fairly mild climate. It’s still that way to a lesser degree. I collect medicines for elders each year and some of the things that use to be more widely available are only found around here now.
The people here had a large territory. They were hunter gatherers. No cultivation of crops. Distances from one seasonal camp to another were long. And they did not always return to the same place each year. Often it might be two or three years before they returned to a camp. One year they might winter at the northern end of their territory and the next year it might be a winter camp 400 miles to the south. They walked. Every couple of years some people might make the journey to the plains to hunt buffalo. This is hundreds of miles over the Rocky mountains from the Columbia Plateau. They walked, and would return the same year because wintering on the plains would be harsh and very dangerous for them being in another people’s territory.
I’m not trying to discourage or be a naysayer. I just think that emphasizing this idea of a life of leisure, laying around telling stories and feasting while reclining on beds of furs is a fantasy that would set most people up for a rude awakening when confronted with the reality of every day life.
Given all that I have said, I think this is a beautiful dream. I think this is possible. I think it’s a desireable way to live with a family including children. If you have ever read my posts about my kids you will see that even though they have chosen different paths, they have thrived and are grateful for growing up the way they did. Partly because of the values that they grew up with and the way those values translate into their life. I believe they may come back towards this life in the future. Mainstream values do not translate so well into a rewilded life. Which is why I believe a fundamental value shift is required for a person to see a wild life as luxurious.
Walking, wintertime, snowshoes, Rocky Mountains, hunting buffalo, trap lines. Awesome!