Circumcision

Regenerative Culture Birthing & Caring for Children
#21

It can’t be that guaranteed; infection from improper cleaning is pretty common among uncircumcised males.

#22

Sure, but lets cross-reference that with people who feel that their penis is shameful, and so don’t pay it the proper attention.

I feel bad about having circumsized my son, because it is a tribal identity marker, for a tribe I don’t want to belong to and which I want to raise my son outside.

#23

I think Judaism’s got a lot going for it with how much wild, tribal custom they’ve preserved. They’re going to have a head start over most of us when it gets down to it, I think.

#24

Actually, an intact penis is pretty easy to keep clean. Only the outside of a baby’s penis needs to be cleaned; the foreskin should never be forcibly retracted. Overzealous cleaning probably causes a lot of infections. Females have more folds and crevices than intact males and no one suggests surgery to keep them clean. here’s what the American Academy of Pediatrics has to say:
http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap//

Foreskin Hygiene: The foreskin is easy to care for. The infant should be bathed or sponged frequently, and all parts should be washed including the genitals. The uncircumcised penis is easy to keep clean. No special care is required! No attempt should be made to forcibly retract the foreskin. No manipulation is necessary. There is no need for special cleansing with Q-tips, irrigation, or antiseptics; soap and water externally will suffice.

Foreskin Retraction: As noted, the foreskin and glans develop as one tissue. Separation will evolve over time. It should not be forced. When will separation occur? Each child is different. Separation may occur before birth; this is rare. It may take a few days, weeks, months, or even years. This is normal. Although many foreskins will retract by age 5, there is no need for concern even after a longer period. [1984 version only: No harm will come in leaving the foreskin alone.] Some boys do not attain full retractability of the foreskin until adolescence

#25

Yeah starfish I had just read that. I’ll comment that it was an age I can remember that my mom told me to retract the skin and wash there. I don’t actually ever remember her doing such a thing for me.

I think Judaism's got a lot going for it with how much wild, tribal custom they've preserved. They're going to have a head start over most of us when it gets down to it, I think.
But to me it's this orthodox dogmaticism I am looking to get away from. I don't want to be bent over by enumerous rules imposed by men/civilization/culture, for daily living. But as I said before I can see and understand the power of a group ritual, and how it can bring people together, in that I see nothing wrong.
#26

Tribal peoples describe their societies as, first and foremost, “traditional.” They’re pretty keen on the dogmatism. The real difference is, are these traditions that work for people, or not?

#27

I’d like to elaborate that if a tradition is truly a burden, then it’s probably not something that really works.

Idle Theory and all that…

#28

I’ll second that. But there’s a big difference between orthodoxy and tradition. The difficulty with tradition is that it can be inflexible, it fails to adapt to rapidly changing conditions. However, when the tradition fits the conditions, it’s excellent.

Orthodoxy, on the other hand, is a limiter. It works on a “it’s bad unless we say it’s good” philosophy. The last thing I want is an “anything goes” philosophy, but I do prefer a “when in doubt, try it out” approach to new things.

As always, this is in my idiolect. I may be off from dictionary definitions. But what I’m really saying is that there’s a subtle difference between two similar outlooks.

#29

Hello–

[phew!]
So I have to believe we come into the world with fairly low maintenance equipment. I wonder if all those infections have more to do with (in addition to overzealous cleaning) standard american diet and lifestyle, like yeast infections and whatnot.

#30

This organization really helped Annie (My wife) out when she had to make a decision on whether or not to circumcise Daniel (He is eight now). She decided against it, and doesn’t regret it. Daniel hasn’t experienced any problems, so far.

http://www.nocirc.org/

Take care,

Curt

#31

For whatever reason, I was not circumcised (never have asked my parents about it), but I’m glad they didn’t. I was fairly young when I learned others had something different about their penises (pre-school boys are fairly unabashed in the bathroom). And in high school, I heard a few slights against uncircumcised penises. I never quite understood this, I like mine just fine the way it is.

As far as cleaning, up until the last year (and even now infrequently) I’ve never ever taken extra care to keep things clean (pulling the foreskin back as i was instructed to do when i was four or so) and I’ve never been infected or had any problems. As far as I can tell, it seems to keep clean on its own for the most part. Maybe I’ve just been lucky and should take better care, but all has been well so far…

I have a friend who’s vehemently against male circumcision… because circumcision leaves the glans exposed it becomes less sensitive, making sex less pleasurable. He was upset about it, so he stretched his skin back using some DIY voodoo. He once described it to me (maybe it involved a paperclip?) and it didn’t sound fun or healthy, but apparently it worked.

#32

I’m really surprised by the number of people who’ve been circumsized. I thought it was really rare these days, and only done among conservative Jews.

Is it standard practice for a lot of hospitals (for hygienic reasons)? Are there any indigenous cultures that circumsize?

#33

Foreskin stigma??! I thought it was the other way around (“lack thereof” stigma). Huh…

Maybe I’m an exception to the norm, but honestly I have had very few experiences of people talking about social expectations regarding circumcision.

#34

Well circumcision had it’s boost in popularity after ww2 (I think), I don’t exactly remember why but…
There are other peoples that perform circumcision, but they all (I believe) make a claim to being a part of the Israelites (like of the lost tribes etc.

#35

nope

yep (and yes, hygiene is the usual reason given)

#36

Hey all,

Since we have been born Mother Culture has taught us to hate our bodies. I think this is a big reason why baby boys are circumcised, too.

http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/1-Premises.htm

Premise Fourteen out of Endgame: From birth on—and probably from conception, but I’m not sure how I’d make the case—we are individually and collectively enculturated to hate life, hate the natural world, hate the wild, hate wild animals, hate women, hate children, hate our bodies, hate and fear our emotions, hate ourselves. If we did not hate the world, we could not allow it to be destroyed before our eyes. If we did not hate ourselves, we could not allow our homes—and our bodies—to be poisoned.

Take care,

Curt

#37

I agree with most if not all of what was written on the link you posted.
However, whatever our feelings or Ideas about Curcumcision are here in this country, Or why it is done,
Curcumcision was and is practiced by a number of primitive tribes.
The austrailian Aboriginies, and the Yanamamo of south America are examples.
I think it is just a matter of preference or culture.
Many things can be an issue wether the people involved live within civilisation or not.
But I do agree that their seems to be something very wrong with
Us in this civilised world.
So many things affect us, and we may only recognise a few, sadly.
If we want to be truly free, then it is nessessary to take some radical steps.

#38

[quote=“Huby7, post:36, topic:371”]Hey all,

Since we have been born Mother Culture has taught us to hate our bodies. I think this is a big reason why baby boys are circumcised, too.

http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/1-Premises.htm

Premise Fourteen out of Endgame: From birth on—and probably from conception, but I’m not sure how I’d make the case—we are individually and collectively enculturated to hate life, hate the natural world, hate the wild, hate wild animals, hate women, hate children, hate our bodies, hate and fear our emotions, hate ourselves. If we did not hate the world, we could not allow it to be destroyed before our eyes. If we did not hate ourselves, we could not allow our homes—and our bodies—to be poisoned.

Take care,

Curt[/quote]

I know I must have read or heard that before, and normally I’m not so fond of Jensen, but this is wonderful.

#39

any given action could be done for many reasons. the intent doesn’t change the action, but it does change why it was done, and that could change the implications and impacts. this is a failure of reductionism.

i pull a weed. what is my intent? to eat it? one part of a larger genocidal effort?

a culture performs circumcisions. why? differentiation from other cultures? self hatred?

sometimes, intent matters.

'poligies if this borders on unsolicited advice. that’s not the spirit in which it was written. i just think there’s more than one level to this issue.

#40
i just think there's more than one level to this issue.

same here.