What is keeping you in civ/Soc?


#21
Hey Emily! I have almost exactly the same situation and I have the same thoughts re: a tribe for mutual safety and support, except that I care less about how my family feels. (Sounds cold, doesn't it? But I have suffered emotional neglect on their part, and the more deeply I realize this, the further I want to back away from them. I have already begun doing so.)

That’s understandable, about your family. I think I am socially inept sometimes because of the way I was raised, really conservative/ catholic (which is unfortunate, because initially I think my parents wanted us to have an atypical upbringing, as they moved to the country from the city and have gardens, fruit tree orchards, etc, that we grew up on. But a large part of my life is still just feeling alienated from others.)… I especially have oppressive issues with my body, self-esteem, and relationships… that I am working on. A tribe would be great for that sort of thing too, a feeling of self, or finding oneself in others, that sort of thing. I think that is the hardest part for me right now, finding a family that shares my views. I find it’s very hard for me to pursue these things on my own, as I don’t have a starting point or much motivation from those I love. Also, I think there are people that can teach me a wealth of knowledge, but I am kind of afraid to get out there and meet them! Eek! Social anxiety? I don’t know…

-emily


#22

Also, this is a new concept to me. I guess I always was thinking about it somewhere deep in my mind, but I was mainly always interested in plants and being self-sufficient (feeding myself off plants that I grew, making my own clothes, that sort of thing). But I never really had any friends that were into that. When I moved to portland is when I started learning about primitive living and such. But my life up till then (and still, kind of) has been a very different one (college, and afterwards) and I am not really sure how to find my place in this society of rewilders… and I am also getting really restless and frustrated that I cannot change like I want to (I still buy stuff that I don’t need, it’s hard to break free, and I think it has a lot to do with the people surrounding me!)…I don’t have that support network!

-emily


#23

[quote=“Dream of Stars, post:21, topic:421”][quote]
Hey Emily!
I have almost exactly the same situation and I have the same thoughts re: a tribe for mutual safety and support, except that I care less about how my family feels. (Sounds cold, doesn’t it? But I have suffered emotional neglect on their part, and the more deeply I realize this, the further I want to back away from them. I have already begun doing so.)
[/quote]

That’s understandable, about your family. I think I am socially inept sometimes because of the way I was raised, really conservative/ catholic (which is unfortunate, because initially I think my parents wanted us to have an atypical upbringing, as they moved to the country from the city and have gardens, fruit tree orchards, etc, that we grew up on. But a large part of my life is still just feeling alienated from others.)… I especially have oppressive issues with my body, self-esteem, and relationships… that I am working on. A tribe would be great for that sort of thing too, a feeling of self, or finding oneself in others, that sort of thing. I think that is the hardest part for me right now, finding a family that shares my views. I find it’s very hard for me to pursue these things on my own, as I don’t have a starting point or much motivation from those I love. Also, I think there are people that can teach me a wealth of knowledge, but I am kind of afraid to get out there and meet them! Eek! Social anxiety? I don’t know…

-emily[/quote]

Hang in there, Emily. I can tell that your intuition is telling you everything you need to know. Honestly, it wasn’t until I met somebody who really cared about me that I realized how deep my emotional needs go, and how consistently they have been UNmet by my family and social environs. He and I have since gone our separate ways (not my choice, and much to my vexation - I continue to feel pain about it, though it has gotten better). But what I learned from him will remain a continual source of inspiration throughout my life. A wellspring, if you will.

While I was in the throes of loss, I sought, and found, a very good therapist. She said, “He gave you yourself.” And that’s all I need to know.


#24

Thanks Rebecca! It’s also hard for me because I like stuff, and I find myself buying stuff when I am sad or lonely or depressed… but if I have other things to keep me busy, a family and friends, then that won’t be a problem, I think. Also, I am learning how to care for myself so that I am not depressed or sad so much. I want to start eating better, excercising, etc. so that I feel better. Also, I have just started to do yoga again at home, and have been taking my vitamins again, semi-regularly, to try and treat my hypothyroidism on my own since I don’t have health insurance, so that has been able to balance my hormonal inbalance a little bit to make my moods better… ugh… health issues!

-emily


#25

I have tried two times to go wild, and I have failed twice!
I believe doing it alone leads to madness, not wilderness. After all if I can’t find my tribe I guess I will step out as a suicide! Better to die with honor…
Emily, I think we better talk more about stuff! Does it accelerate or hinder rewilding? I really wanna know.
MR


#26

jsut saw ‘Into The Wild’…

“happiness is only real when shared”

I think that says it all.


#27

[quote=“Dream of Stars, post:24, topic:421”]Thanks Rebecca! It’s also hard for me because I like stuff, and I find myself buying stuff when I am sad or lonely or depressed… but if I have other things to keep me busy, a family and friends, then that won’t be a problem, I think. Also, I am learning how to care for myself so that I am not depressed or sad so much. I want to start eating better, excercising, etc. so that I feel better. Also, I have just started to do yoga again at home, and have been taking my vitamins again, semi-regularly, to try and treat my hypothyroidism on my own since I don’t have health insurance, so that has been able to balance my hormonal inbalance a little bit to make my moods better… ugh… health issues!

-emily[/quote]

I have the same problem sometimes (although the last couple of months I have really been able to reign in spending outside of my budget … I’m very happy about that … I think partly it is the discovery of this conversation board and seeing how other people are acting upon their anarcho-primitivist sentiments).

My big sin has been restaurants. My last relationship was with a foodie, and I got sucked in. I think it’s time for me to try a paleo diet so that I can’t go out to eat. :wink:

It’s not too surprising to me that you, I and probably some others here would have a problem with liking “stuff” even though we want to get away from consumerism. I think it comes from a desire to connect with the physical world, even if it isn’t something that comes totally from nature.

Maybe a solution would be to take up an art, like sculpture or visual art? There are so many ways to do this without spending a ton of money. It would also be a way to express ideas about connection with nature. (A few years ago I used to do lifelike miniature sculptures, and a plan to get back into it has been on the back burner for quite a while. I can see myself taking it in a new direction and expressing more holistic concepts through sculpture.)

In a way, your development of gardening/permaculture skills is one such solution of self-expression. At least I see it that way. Do you agree?


#28

[quote=“mountain refugee, post:25, topic:421”]I have tried two times to go wild, and I have failed twice!
I believe doing it alone leads to madness, not wilderness. After all if I can’t find my tribe I guess I will step out as a suicide! Better to die with honor…[/quote]

MR, wow, it’s great that you tried, even if you failed! I’m the opposite. I would need to have other people around to learn with, even for something less than going completely wild. But I guess you have also come to the same conclusion–that people belong in societies. :slight_smile: I agree that doing it alone is either a sign of madness, or leads to it!


#29

[quote=“TonyZ, post:26, topic:421”]jsut saw ‘Into The Wild’…

“happiness is only real when shared”

I think that says it all.[/quote]

So, without giving away the plot, what is the movie about? I knew it existed (in fact, I almost walked in front of the camera one day last summer when they were shooting it in Seattle! A crew member intercepted me.) - BUT I am so unplugged from mass media that I haven’t seen any trailers and I have no idea what the movie is about. I think I know that Sean Penn is involved with it in some way - is that right?

Care to elaborate, and/or rank the film?


#30

I believe it’s about the book under the same name : ) But I haven’t seen it for basically the same reason, unless I had the opportunity to watch it free here or something, but nevertheless


#31

it’s about a kid who gives away his left over college money ($24K) ot OXFAM, instead of going to Harvard Law, and hits the road. It’s an amazing movie. Sarah said I was lucky to see the movie, and to read the book now, because they get a lot deeper into the people he meets. It’s a beautiful movie with lots of struggle, and amazing people along the way. The soundtrack is amazing, and gives you goosebumps. It’s done by Eddie Vedder, a huge Ishmael fan.

'she felt like it was her purpose to know everything by it’s true name…" A telling quote Chris Uses from Dr. Zhivago.

It definitely worth seeing, visuals alone, and his sentiments are touching, his pain is real, and the narration, done by his real sister, is haunting. It’s a great movie, on it’s own, no the greatest, like Wes Anderson great, but never did I feel like I needed to suspend my disbelief, never did I feel like someone wasn’t being genuine, it was very realistic and cathartic. The views he finds on his trip are worth seeing it in the theater.

so, I guess, movies are what keeps me here, and internet conversations. they can be much more interesting, sometimes, of in person ones.


#32

the only thing keeping me here is (like some others pointed out here), most of the land around here is “owned” by someone (always did find the idea strange, even as a kid!) and there are all these Hunting prohibition laws, laws that prevent people from just going to some random piece of public park or sanctuary and living there etc. It’s sad really. But a part of it also my parents. I have to stick around, until they are gone. Of course the last one is just the cherry on the cake, it just sort of seals the deal. Although if I did go back to india, I know a LOT of places where I could just build a little hut, and live there hunting and foraging. But again the problem is these days even in a place like india, government owns all unnocupied or free land. So I need money to buy it off them. Which is more easily done there (for me at least, since I know people who own vast amounts of public parks, and reserve areas and such).

So in conclusion, why am i staying with civilisation: because I do not know where I could go to live in peace and harmony, as it was done in the good old days! Anyone suggest me a place where I could bunk up for the next 100 years at least with no worry about taxes, or getting premission from someone and paying them vasts amounts of money for no reason. I will be there constructing a hut in 1 week!

-Tj
-Tj


#33

[quote=“mountain refugee, post:25, topic:421”]I have tried two times to go wild, and I have failed twice!
I believe doing it alone leads to madness, not wilderness. After all if I can’t find my tribe I guess I will step out as a suicide! Better to die with honor…
Emily, I think we better talk more about stuff! Does it accelerate or hinder rewilding? I really wanna know.
MR[/quote]

Hello MR! I think that “stuff” (consumer goods) for me makes me realize how easy it is to get distracted from rewilding my mind, for the most part. And lifestyle has a lot to do with it. If I am surrounded by friends who are still loving/enjoying aspects of civilization then I will also enjoy it to a certain degree (fashion, entertainment, drinking, eating out, spending money, etc). It has a lot to do with a tribe, in the case of rewilding. If you are surrounded by people that have no use or value for “stuff” that is not useful or valuable (because it is useful) then you, in turn, will not value these things and will not find them useful. Also, there are other alternatives to buying things that this sort of lifestyle will present, like making things! I really think that the right tribe, for me, would help me a great deal with spending and buying less stuff and help me focus on other things to pass my time and make me feel confident. Also, if I surround myself with interesting, pleasing things to me (gardens, plants, friends, handmade items, etc.), I will not have to surround myself with consumer goods… does this make sense?!

-emily


#34

I agree! This board has to serve as my “tribe” right now since I don’thave anyone near in real life to hang out with a talk to about these things yet. But I have been meeting a few people that are interested in my gardening plans, and I have also told them about this board and talked to them about foraging and such, so maybe I will actually be able to get out with other people in real life and do some stuff too!

My big sin has been *restaurants*. My last relationship was with a foodie, and I got sucked in. I think it's time for me to try a paleo diet so that I [i]can't[/i] go out to eat. ;)

yup, living in portland made me realize how much I love going out to eat, but not spending money! EEK! I did try to make dinner every night but it got really old and lost all of the excitement, especially because my boyfriend did not get home until 9:30pm and I would be exhausted from working all day and then making dinner at night so I would not even enjoy eating meals together… ugh…

Now that I am back in Ohio, I am having a hard time making dinners and other meals for myself because I only really like to cook when i am making food for other people…

It's not too surprising to me that you, I and probably some others here would have a problem with liking "stuff" even though we want to get away from consumerism. I think it comes from a desire to connect with the physical world, even if it isn't something that comes totally from nature.

Maybe a solution would be to take up an art, like sculpture or visual art? There are so many ways to do this without spending a ton of money. It would also be a way to express ideas about connection with nature. (A few years ago I used to do lifelike miniature sculptures, and a plan to get back into it has been on the back burner for quite a while. I can see myself taking it in a new direction and expressing more holistic concepts through sculpture.)

I have been self-employed through my artwork for some time now, with art shows, and selling wall hangings and now tshirts of my designs! http://dreamofstars.com if you want to check them out! But I have been super lazy lately because I don’t really have any outlets here for my art (In Portland, I had an art show every other month, so I had something to work towards/for… as motivation)…

In a way, your development of gardening/permaculture skills is one such solution of self-expression. At least I see it that way. Do you agree?

Sure do! I am really excited for this. I think that working with plants is one of my true passions, not just something I am good at, you know? But I am still longing for a tribe of my own… it’s interesting, though I have been talking more and more with my older sister and my mom and dad about gardening since they have been doing that for a long time, and so in a way I do have a family interest, but I still need something my own, like with friends/peers and people my age, you know?

-emily


#35

Yup, I know. Although I would prefer to be surrounded by a “tribe” (so to speak) of people with a continuity of ages. I find I can make friends with people of all ages, and it depends much less on the person’s age than on … well, the person. :slight_smile:

When I get a chance, I’ll take a look at your sculptures! I want to put a little more time aside to see them, and I don’t have that time today. But I will. 8)


#36

Very good point. And even if you did gather/grow your own food, make all your own clothes, and don’t drive, you still have to start from somewhere. And while I think it’s possible to live simply off the land, the initial bit has to invariably be purchased or produced by civilization. It’s a dizzying thought, really.

For me, it’s the fact that I have debt (some of it is productive debt, like my house, which shelters me and my land, which feeds me (an ongoing project), some of it is consumer debt which I’d like to get rid of and avoid), and also the fact that there are things in this world that I’m not willing to give up, like tea. I’m working on the thought that I might eventually be able to grow my own (in pots, since it’s not hardy here) but I drink tea almost exclusively, so that will be difficult. But we’ll see.

Chocolate is another biggie, although I have switched to at least purchasing a good brand of chocolate instead of just anything off the shelf. And obviously I use a computer, and am on the internet a lot. And as a writer, I have to be part of the consumer society if I want my books to be published and read. I’m working on that part, but I’m not sure there are any good answers.


#37

what’s keeping me in civ/soc. Actually, this title answered to me itself…

“What’s keeping you in civilization?”
Society.

For I can leave civilization but I come back because that’s where my society is at. If I could get my society to leave civilization, then why go back?

Well… and college -__-


#38

Yeah, the album “Yield” by Pearl Jam was inspired by Ishmael. :smiley:

By “hits the road,” do you mean in a Jack Kerouac kind of way?


#39

kind of, but less angrily. a few old timers tell him he is a leather tramp, that is, he’s hoofin’ it, whereas Kerouac was a rubber tramp, hitting the road on wheels.


#40

Kerouac was a tourist.